Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Sherburne Trail Etiquette & Safety

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Sherburne Trail Etiquette & Safety

    Originally posted by InfamouslyJones View Post
    - does anyone know of proper [etiquette] for skinning the Sherbie? I came across a large group skinning up it the other day around noon-ish (weekday).
    Wasn't sure if this is acceptable or not. I always thought it wasn't allowed - but even if it was, why would you want to? Seems to me like the TRT is the better angle approach. Id understand if it was April and the Sherbie had the only snow (though no I wouldn't cause then your killing our base) but to do it now doesn't make sense to me. The only other explanation I have is that they came across from GOS and took the Sherbie up to a cross over to the TRT.
    Originally posted by icelanticskier View Post
    The TRT is the up trail, sherb is for skiing down, not up. End of story.
    As far as GOS skinning etiquette goes and I hope Avy instructors are reading this. When yer taking yer students up the GOST please stay single file off to ONE side. The trail is narrow overall. Sunday just before noon, Rob and I were halfway down the trail and came around a corner and there were like 20 students and an instructor scattered all over the trail all Willy nilly and whatnot. No bueno. If yer gonna learn people about snow at least learn them how to travel uphill first.
    I think its worth moving InfamouslyJones question to a separate Safety topic, because its a hotbed of controversy.

    Rog, I respectfully agree to disagree with you about uphill skiing on the Sherb, but you have many supporters in your corner, including USFS, AMC, MWVSP.

    Rog, you beat me to the punch, and I agree 100% with you regarding instructional groups traveling uphill, on GOST or the Sherburne Trail. A college group practicing self-arrest, glissading with crampons and ice axes en masse in the middle of the Sherburne Trail absolutely blew my mind one day, as I skinned up around them... it was early AM on a weekday, but all those 12-points and ice axes in the middle of the trail would have posed an unnecessary risk to any downhill skiers.

    I'm the Emily Post of backcountry ethics, etiqette, and risk assessment.
    Your question goes to the heart of a subject near-and-dear to a few die-hard T4T posters, which is keeping our recreational pursuits as UNREGULATED as possible,
    except certain behaviors that adversely impact others
    - FREEDOM OF THE HILLS -
    with this freedom comes responsibility, of course, for your own safety and others',
    but if you're only hurting someone's feelings, that's not cause for another regulation, IMO.

    Hiking up or down the Sherburne Trail is explicitly forbidden - it only takes a few postholers to decimate the ski trail, obviously - and for safety reasons, to prevent collisions between hikers and out-of-control skiers.

    But what about snowshoers, skinners and splitters?
    My USFS and MWVSP friends all agree that uphill traffic of any kind is "not permitted" on the Sherburne, or is, at least, frowned-upon.

    With proper flotation, uphill or downhill, there is no impact on the quality or longevity of the skiing surfaces.
    Jones, what the heck makes you think skinning up kills the base? The last snow up GOST is the skin-track that we packed-down over the winter.
    In fact, I may share one of my Westside skin track data in the future, because the more traffic, the better it packs down, and the longer it lasts late-season.

    Which leaves collisions.
    USFS, MWVSP, and AMC caretakers hate responding to collisions. They can be very bloody, and life-threatening. I could write another whole thread on my experiences with collision accidents between downhill skiers and riders on the Sherburne Trail. Long story short, take a 2-day SOLO WFA course, and carry a first aid kit in your ski pack that can stabilize a broken bone, and stop the bleeding - lots and lots of bleeding.

    Back to your question of etiqette: in my opinion, a responsible uphill skier, splitter, or slowshoer poses no more risk of collision than any downhill skier, splitter, or slowshoer.
    Where there are double-fall lines, as much as possible, I stay on the uphill edge; out-of-control skiers generally fall downhill.
    i make an occasional exception at blind spots, like Windy Corner, where visibility may play a bigger role in safety than staying on the uphill edge;
    the downhill edge is also the outside of the corner, and most people descending are on the middle or inside of that curve.
    I avoid surprising anyone descending, and usually hoot or holler some encouraging words;
    Ear-buds, headphones? no, no, no... listen to the forest, it's full of sounds, including the sound of descending skiers & riders - do not put your head down and turn the volume up, if you are sharing a trail with downhill traffic.
    Time of day, and day of the week, are important factors. There are very few descending skiers early in the morning, and fewer mid-week than weekends & holidays.

    When in doubt about the volume of downhill traffic, I stick to the TRT.

    I confess, I skin up the Sherbie.
    But I go out of my way to make sure it has no impact on anyone.

    Why? Because I hate people, crowds, really, if you know what I mean.

    When I discovered climbing skins turned my 200cm straight skis into snowshoes that could take me off-trail, away from the hordes of flatlanders trudging up the TRT, I was all over the Sherburne, and off it, skinning up anywhere between the TRT and Sherburne. But I digress.

    Finally, I'm all about following safety protocols, even when risks are low, and they seem stupid. Following simple safety protocols, over time, pays off.

    So I must confess, I am wrong, and that is the most convincing reason to NOT skin up the Sherburne. That, and I don't want to piss-off Rog, or my USFS and MWVSP friends.

    One more reason - two actually - collisions with people and regulations - that I spend most of my days touring closer to home, in the Wild Wild West.
    .
    Last edited by Lftgly; 02-22-2017, 07:56 PM.
    "The man who goes alone can start today; but he who travels with another must wait till that other is ready." - Henry David Thoreau

  • #2
    Thank you for creating this valuable thread Jon! And no I'm not pissed at all that you skin the Sherb. You get it. My stance on skinning the Sherb is that, IMHO, the T4T trail is a much nicer constant grade for skinning the whole way. Once I've got my heel elevator in the mid height I don't have to touch or think about them till I get to hojos. I also am not really fond of skinning thru troughs of moguls or skied of icy areas if there's a smoother option with better snow nearby. Like that long blown off section of Sherb sucks donkey balls. Another reason is pace. TRT is uphill and downhill traffic at a walking pace. Sherb is filled with skiers of all paces of erratic craziness. Teletubby looking GO PRO helmet cam hero's pivot skidding at Mach loony trying to "send it" to get the raddest footy woot! Yip yip! Those are the worst. I just don't find it as peaceful as the hiking trail. But I respect you for your choice. It is a ski trail and you ski up and down it, cool.

    I don't like people either. Per se😉

    Comment


    • #3
      So alot of this comes down to.... one person once in a while == no problemo. If everyone started doing it..... ouch!
      StoneMan

      Comment


      • #4
        I appreciate this being moved to its own topic. As I stated - I skin up the TRT. Just wanted to know how some of the vets felt about it.

        To answer your question quickly: "Jones, what the heck makes you think skinning up kills the base?" I would say that perhaps not everyone stays in their bindings when skiing up for an hour and a half. I know I have to step out to change my height lever because Im on an AT set up; and im a big boy... (Don't judge my ascent times Im working on them haha) But yes, I agree that packing down the base helps solidify it.

        I still stand by my notion that the TRT is a better angled approach - but at least now I know when the shark teeth start rearing their ugly head on the TRT I have other options.

        Appreciate the discussion as always. Be safe everyone - I see Sunday is calling for ice skates.

        Comment


        • #5
          Jones, why out of bindings to adjust risers? Thought I'd see you up high Sunday. Great snow minus the midweek crowds!😀 Sunday could be good up high with enough new snow n blow. Just don't tell anyone I told you that😉

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by icelanticskier View Post
            Jones, why out of bindings to adjust risers? Thought I'd see you up high Sunday. Great snow minus the midweek crowds!😀 Sunday could be good up high with enough new snow n blow. Just don't tell anyone I told you that😉
            Yea Sunday was a late start for me.. Didn't get up the TRT till almost 2pm.. Slept at HoJos and then toured on Monday (Good Call)

            I am actually planning to make a move on Sunday - so hopefully our paths will cross then.

            I have to step out of my bindings because Im using these Look AT Bindings (They made them for like one season) with downhill boots (because I enjoy pain) and the lever is a b**h to do when flexed forward. I only have to do this when going up in settings - otherwise I can lower them with no problem. In reality im just making excuses. Next year I plan on shelling out money on a tech set up.

            Hope everyone had a fun weekend of biking, surfing, and hiking.. now bring back winter.

            Comment


            • #7
              I love skinning the shirbe for the first couple of turns, then you cross over on to the tucks trail for that straight shot up to the bridges. It mixes things up a bit and it's a pleasant skin, then you miss all gem pool hikers.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by apingaut View Post
                I love skinning the shirbe for the first couple of turns, then you cross over on to the tucks trail for that straight shot up to the bridges.
                Yeah, that works when i park at that south end of the lot, closer to GOST; but when I park at the north end, I start skinning past the Weasel Shed, right up to TRT
                "The man who goes alone can start today; but he who travels with another must wait till that other is ready." - Henry David Thoreau

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by InfamouslyJones View Post

                  Yea Sunday was a late start for me.. Didn't get up the TRT till almost 2pm.. Slept at HoJos and then toured on Monday (Good Call)

                  I am actually planning to make a move on Sunday - so hopefully our paths will cross then.

                  I have to step out of my bindings because Im using these Look AT Bindings (They made them for like one season) with downhill boots (because I enjoy pain) and the lever is a b**h to do when flexed forward. I only have to do this when going up in settings - otherwise I can lower them with no problem. In reality im just making excuses. Next year I plan on shelling out money on a tech set up.

                  Hope everyone had a fun weekend of biking, surfing, and hiking.. now bring back winter.
                  I tour in DH boots, just got new Lange RX 120 (no walk mode, never needed it, nice and simple) in November and they ski amazing and tour just as amazing and kick a booter better than any AT boot I've owned. Been using the Marker f-12 tour binders for 6 years now. Perfect binding for everything, imo.

                  Fantastic conditions at Mildcat today, a thousand times better than expected. Not sure when I'll be up George way this week, but I'm itching. Crampons will be in use😉. Lots of snowsquall action goin on in the notch today.

                  Comment

                  Working...
                  X