'08 Avi II course

[astrotech]

Last season I tried to get an Avi II course together. Unfortunately, it fell through due to an incident of head trauma and an incident of a (almost) killer virus. So I still haven’t been through the Avi II yet. I wanted to find out if there was any interest in doing a course. We might be able to get EMS to do a special course if we can round up enough folk. Right now EMS is offering the Avi II, but it is split over two weekends, a concept I am not too keen on. I would rather take the Friday and Monday off and be done with it.

So, anybody else here interested in doing this? If we can get a group of 4 people we can make this happen.

[PWDR8S]

Last season I tried to get an Avi II course together. Unfortunately, it fell through due to an incident of head trauma and an incident of a (almost) killer virus. So I still haven’t been through the Avi II yet. I wanted to find out if there was any interest in doing a course. We might be able to get EMS to do a special course if we can round up enough folk. Right now EMS is offering the Avi II, but it is split over two weekends, a concept I am not too keen on. I would rather take the Friday and Monday off and be done with it.

So, anybody else here interested in doing this? If we can get a group of 4 people we can make this happen.

I'm still interested but like before, I have to coordinate it with my travels. So, yes, you can count me in.

So far my definate sched is:
Vail: Dec 19-30
Cortina: Feb 13-23
Chic Chocs: Apr 13-19

Other adventures: TBD
JH is likely to be in this list somewhere pending timing and $$$ for air.

[samthaman]

i'm very interested and i have two (potentially 3) friends that might be as well.

[smido]

I am interested as well and also have a friend who would be potentially interested. I would not mind even if it is split over two weekends.

[yuckster]

sounds good, I might be in, and my girlfriend would come along too; I'd like to suggest mid/late january because we'll probably get some field time in MODERATE avalanche conditions up in the presidentials, yet it won't be peak backcountry season, so it won't be so painful to miss 4 potential skiing days. ;)

[astrotech]

The responses from folk here sounds great. I am already talking to EMS to see what we can work out, but the response so far has been pretty favorable. I am going to try and get this scheduled for as early in the season as we could do it, that way we can get more safer ski days out of this season. However, I suspect that February would be the earliest, since most of the work done in Avi II is field work, and layers of snow are needed. But, this is of course, up to the course provider.

Stay tuned, more info to come.

[samthaman]

thanks for putting this together, please keep us posted!

[PWDR8S]

I forgot to mention that I 2nd the motion for doin it in 1 weekend.

Should give ChickWhoRips a jingle... she might still be on board to git er done.

[astrotech]

Should give ChickWhoRips a jingle... she might still be on board to git er done.

I already did that my friend. I haven't heard from her yet, but messages have been sent.

[astrotech]

I was talking with EMS a bit and here is the latest scoop on the Avi II course.

EMS did move the course dates to one long weekend. It is Friday, Feb 29 to Monday, March 3. However, this isn’t a special arrangement, T4T only class. They just shuffled some dates around to make this happen. So besides readers of this forum there will be others signing up for the course. Because the Avi II requires a lot of field work the group size is limited to 6 people. Besides myself one person already signed up, so if you want to get in I would advise calling up EMS and signing up for this soon.

There is also a gear requirement, as described by EMS; “we want everyone to have The Avalanche Handbook and Snow and Weather Recording Guidelines(SWAG), as well as a field notebook and snow study kit. The easiest place to order all of this is from AIARE at www.AvTraining.org.”

Since the Avi II is a 4 day course, and there are a limited number of instructors certified to teach it, getting a special arrangement class together isn’t too easy. It looks like this is the best I can get right now. Hope to see some of you guys up there.

[Rainman]

Have a blast guys. There is lot's of science. It would have been helpful for me if i had boned up on my gas laws prior to going to the course I took last year. They just kinda assumed that everyone knew them .. it's had been a long time since highschool physics class. :D I studyied all night the first night so i could get back on track. The second day i understood quite a bit more. I'm planning on taking it again probably next year. Supper fun. Highly recommended.

[PWDR8S]

I'm in the class! Just signed up with the EMS Climbing School AND they lowered their rates for groups!
Steve (I didn't catch the last name) is teaching this course.

There is only 1 space left for the Feb 29th - Mar 2nd N.Conway class, so call in now if you want the level II!
800-310-4504

Beta from their website.... http://www.emsclimb.com/mountaineering_avalanche.htm
Play Smarter AIARE AVALANCHES LEVEL 2:
The Level 2 4-day course takes a more in-depth look at snow science and decision making, and builds upon the observation and decision-making skills learned in the Level 1 course. Professional standards for recording and observing weather, snow pack, and avalanches will be introduced, along with a system for stability analysis and forecasting. This course is ideal for backcountry skiers and climbers who are looking for advanced knowledge and skills and people interested in snow safety and guiding careers. This course also prepares you for a Level 3 course if you are interested in furthering your education. Participants should have previously taken a Level 1 course and be comfortable traveling in avalanche terrain.

North Conway Level II $400
February 29-March 3
March 11-14 (Didn't ask about this one so I don't know if it's still on or filled or what.... call them)


*Avalanche courses are certifiable through AIARE (American Institute for Avalanche Research and Education)
What to bring and what to wear (http://www.emsclimb.com/equipment_lists/ice_climbing_1_day.htm)
These Programs are 2 and 4 days on scheduled dates in North Conway, NH (http://www.emsclimb.com/locations_north_conway.htm)and Lake Placid (http://www.emsclimb.com/locations_lake_placid.htm)
:D

[astrotech]

I'll see you up there PWDR8S. I am enrolled too, it looks like it will be a good class. Can't wait to spend 4 days digging snow pits.

[Rainman]

Probably Steve Nicapor(sp) great guy and super knowledgeable. :D If you get a chance pull out your high school or college physics book and bone up on gas laws before the class. The Avy II course I took last year assumed I knew them .. it’s been a while since I took physics and I struggled with that a bit my first day.
I just finished an accelerated introductory course with my GF. It was a blast. Three days up at Brighton in a lodge with touring access at the front door. We had some classroom stuff in the AM then practical outdoor work every day .. then more classroom / talks after dinner until 9ish. Super fun and most of the speakers were UAC forecasters. They basically split it up into each day into a section. Rescue, snow assessment, and terrain management. It was amazing to practice rescue with a larger group. It adds SO many complications that I couldn’t imagine. My solo rescue is down to about 3 to 3.5 min for a single burial. A perfect group rescue ran around 5 and we had some that took over 10 BAD! Make sure you partners are practiced! Just having one person in a group that doesn’t know how to use there beacon can really throw a monkey wrench into a rescue.
On our last day we had Considerable avy danger. It was a perfect day for the terrain management. Of all the course I’ve taken this one had about double the practical work. It was really great just spending that much time out in the field with some pros. If anyone is interested in taking a course in UT here is the link.

http://www.xmission.com/~haas/avalanche/node8.html It was the friends of the UAC course.

[smido]

Well, I just took the last spot. Can't wait!

[PWDR8S]

Hey smido and astro (sounds like dog names..... you dogs! :p ), have you determined lodging logistics yet?

Currently I'm torn between staying up there which adds up to $$$s with room plus food
OR
driving back here each night (100mi each way) which would be about $40/day in fuel and about 2hrs commute each way. Food woudl still be consumed but I'ld make lunches, etc.

The way I'm looking at it, I can either spend more cash and relax up there and spend more or I can be miserly and add 4hrs a day driving for 4 days(It would be like me doing back to back TUX trips all weekend and then some.)
Ehhhh....... maybe I should just bit the bullet and stay somewhere cheap up there and spend the extra at some bars. http://timefortuckerman.com/photopost/data/774/1659s148.gif Actually, I'ld be hitting the sack early considering how much digging and knowledge will be absorbed. :eek:

OK... now that I finished babbling out loud about this...
Any ideas on lodging?

[NtrentT]

Steve was our instructor last year for the AVI 1 class.

Maybe he will let you dig your own pit this time....... :rolleyes:

Nice guy though

[PWDR8S]

Steve was our instructor last year for the AVI 1 class.

Maybe he will let you dig your own pit this time....... :rolleyes:

Nice guy though

Heh heh... I'm sure of it. It is why it's such a small group (max 6) and HANDS ON was the operative word for this class. Curious that he didn't let y'all try your own. In my Avi I with Chauvin Guides, we did that but theres was not much snow to dig(only 1 pit per group of 3). Perhaps he was pressed for time and couldn't take the time to check each and give advise on each. I dunno, I wasn't there.

It should be an interesting course. I'm certain my head will explode by the end of it.

[Rainman]

I'm not there any more but the Bretts http://www.brettl.org/Welcome.php might have beds. Dollar beer and a cot for 20 or 30 a night (i forget). PM Skilasnow. He is still a member and could hook you up. If you can't get in touch with him PM me and I'll get you in touch with the right people. (If it’s this weekend it might be a little crazy up there. I think it’s the First Aid party. Jell-O shots and cuties dressed up as nurses. :D Ahh that’s a good party

http://roffe.net/carrie/2007-01-20_First_Aid_at_the_Bretts/photos/photo4.html
User party Pass pics

[astrotech]

I'll be driving up Thursday night and staying the whole time. The commute back to Boston would be a bit, uhmm, longish to do everyday. The GF will be coming up for part if not the whole time, otherwise I'd say lets room. I am still up for nightly beers though!

I haven't figured out where to stay yet, probably some cheaper place, there are a couple motels in N. Conway I have stayed at that have been acceptable. The Joe Dodge Lodge may have some available spaces, if you are looking for cheap, plus it would be right where we will be meeting every morning. I seem to recall that the pancakes at the Lodge there were pretty good.

[jshefftz]

Curious that he didn't let y'all try your own. In my Avi I with Chauvin Guides, we did that but theres was not much snow to dig(only 1 pit per group of 3).
AIARE L1 focus is just to introduce/present/demonstrate snow pits, both so that the students can see the snowpack layers and to see how observations are performed. An introductory course (even at three days) typically doesn't have the time to teach students how to dig proper pits and make consistent observations.
L2 focus gets into the science (although no need to review a college-level textbook -- just read McClung beforehand if you want more background) and the detailed observations and related protocol.
Reasonable people can certainly disagree on what topics should be taught at what level of course, but I like AIARE's focus at the introductory level of emphasizing decision making and terrain selection, rather the risk students coming away thinking they have the skills for detailed observations.

[astrotech]

Shouldn't everybody be able to whip out a few thermodynamic calculations in the field?

http://www.thesimpsonsquotes.com/images/frinkearmuffs.gif
A simple reading of the ambient air and snow temperatures when entered into the Snoavulometer 9000 along with the radiative heat coefficient, the snow binding constant, as well as the hydrodynamical variant factor will produce the result of when to be doing with the slipping and the sliding on the snow and Hey Lady!

[PWDR8S]

Shouldn't everybody be able to whip out a few thermodynamic calculations in the field?

http://www.thesimpsonsquotes.com/images/frinkearmuffs.gif
A simple reading of the ambient air and snow temperatures when entered into the Snoavulometer 9000 along with the radiative heat coefficient, the snow binding constant, as well as the hydrodynamical variant factor will produce the result of when to be doing with the slipping and the sliding on the snow and Hey Lady!

http://www.techsourceconsultants.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10020/lauging_smiley.gif

Don't forget the Scintrex CG-3 Gravity Meter! An all important tool that every gravity glider needs in their toolbox!


Think I'll check Joe Dodge's..... hey smido... wanna split a room? (Caution: I snore)

[smido]

I'm not there any more but the Bretts http://www.brettl.org/Welcome.php might have beds. Dollar beer and a cot for 20 or 30 a night (i forget). PM Skilasnow. He is still a member and could hook you up.

Thanks Rainman, I might give this a shot. The alternatives are (a) finding a cheapo motel or (b) finally try out the rear seat fold-down capabilities of my new Outback.

Either way, I am not driving back and forth - equally expensive, not very green and time consuming.

[smido]

http://roffe.net/carrie/2007-01-20_First_Aid_at_the_Bretts/photos/photo4.html
User party Pass pics


The password does not seem to work.

[PWDR8S]

:doh: I'll call Skilas (I owe him a call anyways about important victuals) and ask about Brett's. I totally spaced on this.

[chickwhorips]

Guess who's back :-)

I am fully recovered from last year's crash, have a new job and have been ski patrolling on weekends at the Cat (and getting know the mountain!).

PM me for lodging at my ski club over the AVI II course weekend. Cheaper than a motel, and you only have to drive back to Jackson each night. All course takers welcome. Plus I know the best watering holes in the area ;-)

I'm excited that we have a good group doing the course and that there is a snow pack to analyze this year!!!!

[boardman]

Guess who's back :-)

I am fully recovered from last year's crash, have a new job and have been ski patrolling on weekends at the Cat (and getting know the mountain!).

PM me for lodging at my ski club over the AVI II course weekend. Cheaper than a motel, and you only have to drive back to Jackson each night. All course takers welcome. Plus I know the best watering holes in the area ;-)

I'm excited that we have a good group doing the course and that there is a snow pack to analyze this year!!!!


Good to know, for when I duck ropes at the Kitty! hahaha! It's been a great season up there!! How did it make out with the rain the yesterday? Lose a lot?

[RR]

Guess who's back :-)

I am fully recovered from last year's crash, have a new job and have been ski patrolling on weekends at the Cat (and getting know the mountain!).....Very welcome news!

Glad to hear you are skiing and that your enthusiasm is in fine form!

Reps for bouncing back!

[chickwhorips]

I left on Sunday so I don't know how much the snow shrunk on Monday.

Boardman: Just don't duck a rope in sight of a patroller... or if you do, don't hurt yourself!!!!

[boardman]

I left on Sunday so I don't know how much the snow shrunk on Monday.

Boardman: Just don't duck a rope in sight of a patroller... or if you do, don't hurt yourself!!!!

Haha! I did EXACTLY this a few weeks back -- ducked the rope on the bottom part of Panther -- and blazed right past a ski patroller that I didn't see! He/She yelled at me, but I just kept going, at least until I smashed into the water bar/gully at the very bottom! hahaha! I quickly scrambled up and over and got out of there. Half hour later, they dropped the rope!

[PWDR8S]

Haha! I did EXACTLY this a few weeks back -- ducked the rope on the bottom part of Panther -- and blazed right past a ski patroller that I didn't see! He/She yelled at me, but I just kept going, at least until I smashed into the water bar/gully at the very bottom! hahaha! I quickly scrambled up and over and got out of there. Half hour later, they dropped the rope!

Tsk! Tsk! Tsk! http://timefortuckerman.com/photopost/data/774/1659naughty.gif You KNOW we do not condone that type activity here on T4T! ;) Behave yourself out there! :cool:

[RR]

Tsk! Tsk! Tsk! http://timefortuckerman.com/photopost/data/774/1659naughty.gif You KNOW we do not condone that type activity here on T4T! ;) Behave yourself out there! :cool:Instant Karma....it's gonnagittcha!

Then again, it's all about being one with the rope, being one with the slope; otherwise known as "The Zen of standing at the bottom with a big smile on".

[PWDR8S]

Let's not get into "Being one with soap on a rope on a slope".
That's just plain odd and perhaps even kinky! :eek:

[RR]

Let's not get into "Being one with soap on a rope on a slope".
That's just plain odd and perhaps even kinky! :eek:I'll admit to being old....

[boardman]

Instant Karma....it's gonnagittcha!

Then again, it's all about being one with the rope, being one with the slope; otherwise known as "The Zen of standing at the bottom with a big smile on".


HAHA! Well, being one with the rope landed my flat on my a$$ with my arm nearly ripped off last time up at the Kitty! haha! But I proceeded undeterred, to drop the 6-8' rock that was the reason I ducked the rope! Then I proceeded to duck the rope right above the Tomcat lift base, so's I could drop another 8' beauty there! haha! It was my last run of the day, so getting my ticket yanked didn't concern me!

Kids, don't emulate this man's behavior! I am a lawless, rotten man destined for a prom date with Miss Karma!