Backcountry Motherloads

[bfast]

Skiing Eastern Backcountry is difficult. Why? All trees!This is why we go to one of the few open places like Tucks.If there isn't hardly any alpine terrain what do you ski?
You ski as wide and long a drainage you can find-you ski lower angle cliffs and rockfaces that hold snow-and you ski a rare patch of nicely spaced trees.
I've been looking and aquiring a short list over the past couple of decades. Things to ski in MIDWINTER and spring(Tucks is dangerous in midwinter).I've thought of putting a guide out.Mixed discussion has some saying keep it secret(Hey,our special place has been tracked up!?)and others say share it.
To make a broad recommendation, if you can see a long line or patch of in a sea of green in the distance it's somrthing worth checking out.
I wonder if anyone else has a short list that's not in any guidebooks (like David Goodman's).Maybe we could have Trade, share (sell?) swap our secret places-or not? Any thoughts?

[DMC]

If there were a ton of BC shots around I'd say let everyone know...
But in the Catskills, we keep our sweet, sweet stashes to ourselves... And there quite a few..

I gladly show people if they come with me... :)

Where were you talking about..?

[RR]

See you in the wintertime.

The count of skiable slide paths is large. Nothing hard about it except navigation and putting in the effort to get out there. Some like North Slide on Tripyramid are day trips. Others, like the watershed feeding Franconia Falls might be better done by setting up a base camp to make the most of the vertical.

My son has plans to ski the 4000'ers and has plotted a number of lines. I have glassed a few and hope to try a couple this winter....and there are rumors of many more. Snowshoes and a tent (etc) might be required for a few lines.

Yahoo!

[Frankontour]

Above the tree limit... in the east... without avalanche danger. May be you could try the Chic-Chocs, if you don't care of 12h of road :D

There is tons of peaks above the trees and the avalanche danger is lower than the mountains in New England as they have a little bit less snowfalls I think.

Some examples :

Patroller bowl at Mt Albert
http://www.campdebase.com/recits/photos/dap-2.jpg

Mont de la Passe, near Mt Jacques Cartier
http://www.mtnphil.com/OldChicChoc/SteepDescent.JPG

[Lftgly]

Bfast, your right, it's a quandry. David Goodman wrote a nice tongue-in-cheek article about the "ski-to-die" club in the ADK, who showed him some of their favorite lines on the condition that he could not reveal their location in a book or magazine, under penalty of death.

His book in 1988 quickly became the "bible" of eastern backcountry skiing for me, when I couldn't find anyone interested, or no one was talking about backcountry options other than Tucks(now it books, plural, with the NY/VT and NH/ME editions; old and new testament?).

Although they are the one authoritative source in print, there are a few major gaps between the reality on the mountain and the descriptions and maps in the books; some are due to changing trail conditions, new growth clogging formerly wider trails (see my 3/08/03 Moosilauke post at http://www.firsttracksonline.com/discus/messages/2508/2012.html); others are due to lack of good mapping data (see the end of my Airplane/Pipeline 5/04/03 post http://www.firsttracksonline.com/discus/messages/2508/2299.html with the map correction - Pipeline is a quarter mile off in Goodman's book). As with any trail guide, (skiing, ice climbing, rock climbing, or hiking), trails change over time, and there is always room for a newer, better published guide book. Hopefully Goodman will update his 1999 edition for AMC books on about the same six year schedule that AMC updates their hiking trail guide books, although over ten years went by between his first and second edition.

DMC and RR represent the two sides of the arguement well. You've compiled your list over the last 20 years, I've got my notes on options in NH over the last 10-15 years, DMC has his short list of secrets in the Catskills, RR has a long list of options in NH(?).

I think many are reluctant to share what they know, because they don't want to find those places tracked up before they get first tracks. It's hard to tell how many lurkers are on these BBS, but the number of active posters is probably a small percentage. My gut tells me that publishing new backcountry ski routes in a book is going to reach the widest audience and have a long term impact over years or decades; a magazine article is going to reach a smaller audience, and be largely forgotten after two seasons; a post on the internet on one of these BBS is going to have the least impact, even though it is in available to millions of people and may persist for many years (Skicdave, what do you think the lifetime is of Old Boad Messages from a TFT thread?)

One day this May at Airplane, one of the regulars from Jackson said he's never seen more than about 15 people over there. I think he's right, even though it seems to be growing, there's just not enough interest in backcountry for these places to get really trashed. The yahoos are never gonna get beyond the "scene" in Tucks.

I think any of the routes published in Goodmans' books are fair game to post. Only once (?) have I posted something that's not "in the public record", and clearly revealed where it was (by description, complete with maps - you'll have to check that "other" BBS). I guess I'll find out next season if that was a mistake.

I'd encourage Bfast, DMC, and RR to share and post what snow conditions you find on the "public record" routes. It's very helpful when planning trips to know where an ice storm left a worse crust - the east side of the White Mountains or the west side, down south or up north, etc. On your favorite, secret routes, just post a vague description of the general location, and include the details on the snow conditions. Consider at least posting a link at that "other" BBS, which is less Tucks-centric.

A private swap of info is an interesting idea, Bfast, but I thought that's what skiing together was for. You wouldn't go and write a book after we email our secrets to you, would you? Let's just meet at a trailhead next winter. Check back in a couple months.

[Steveboarder]

ok reading this got me all fired up for some new adventures this winter! I just ordered Goodman's' book online

[DMC]

I have NO problem giving up the goods and will definatley share any condition info....

BUT - I like to take people to place rather than tell them.. Because of the back country pictures we take in the Catskills, I get inquiries ALL the time as to routes in and around the Hunter Mountain area. So I have to be careful who I tell.. Mainly because I don't want to get them killed and secondly I want my tracks! ;)

Given that - why do I expect you guys to give up the goods? Because - it's worth a shot.... :)

[RR]

I'd be pleased to have folks along for North Slide. If the weather is nice I'll drag along a grill and some propane (have sled, will travel). I'll be doing veggie burgers, but bring what you like and we can do some backcountry BBQ! In exchange someone will have to carry-in my two longnecks, I'll lug them back out.

[DMC]

Dude... I am so there...

Back Country - BBQ and Beer...

heaven?

[Jerm]

All I know is the old timers on the Teardrop are not happy about Goodman's book. And more recently, Big Jay has become downright crowded, no doubt cause of the "new testament".

[bfast]

Thanks for replying everyone. Looks like north slide of Tripyramid is out of the bag thanks to RR of Melrose!That was on my list!No problem. It is certainly kind to want to share, RR.
Great pictures of Mt. Albert, Frankentour.I was there years ago.
I think there are a bunch of people pissed at Goodman for exposing a few places but most are not hidden places.I would'nt show Goodman my most special places, though, unless you want to see it in print.
I feel like DMC in that I like to bring someone in to a place (and then sign paperwork of confidentiality!)

[RR]

North Slide has been discussed as a delightful day trip on this board in the past...plus, it's hardly a secret stash, there are some of that sort that would make a great day for a small group.

January, before the thaw would be suitable, unless we had a huge December. THere are other reasons to make the trip :happyhiker: that lead to :happydog:

[Lftgly]

OK, bfast, that sounds good to me. Free skiing in the backcountry always comes with a price; you gotta earn your turns. I don't mind a little trail work in summer and fall, maybe brushing glades or clearing blowdowns. I'll ski/hike all morning for one good run after Noon. Heck, I'll even sign a liability waiver and confidentiality agreement in the trailhead parking lot, if I have to! January sounds good, RR.