Crampon Advice

[pscopa]

Anyone have any advice on buying crampons?

Want them to do Tucks (ski boots) and be compatable with my Koflach Degre winter boots. From what I have read I should get step in crampons. Debatable on how many points.

Any thoughts?

Paul

[skiquick]

I currently have a pair of CAMP aluminum crampons. They are very light but the downside to Aluminum is they are not as strong as Steel ones. I've used mine a couple of times on Rainier out in Washington and only put them on about 2-3 times a year so they work great for me. There are a couple of brands that make Aluminum crampons, but if you're planning on using them more frequently then 2-3 times a year you should go with steel. You mentioned you want them to fit your ski boots and plastics, for that I recommend a lock in heel with straps over the toe of the crampon for adjustability. Since both ski boots and plastics are rigid soles you can really use any type of crampon but if you ever plan to use them on leather or softer hiking boots you should get a pair with a hinge in middle of the crampon so they will feel more natural when walking in them.
Right in line with this question, I am heading up to Tucks the weekend of April 26th. Should I be bringing my crampons with me? and what about an ice axe? I wouldn't mind trying to summit while I'm up there. Is the ice axe and crampons overkill??

[diehard]

I found a pair of "partial" crampons at an outdoors store last year which I used at Tucks. They look sort of like an aluminum paw, with straps for attaching to boots. They are actually the same crampon part that I've seen in some snow shoes. They are aluminum and fit under the sole of a hiking boot, or under the front part of a ski boot. I thought they worked pretty well when I was kick stepping up Hillmans. I felt a bit more confident that I wouldn't slip. They are also not as sharp as actual crampons.

[pscopa]

Thanks guys for the input.

The reason I am looking for crampons is becuase last Thursday I should have had them on. Kicked up to the top of Left Gully. As I began to establish my footing my right boot lost its grip then the left one. I began to slide.Luckily after a couple feet got my poles dug in to stop what I thought was going to be a nasty fall.

Skiquick;

I don't think either is overkill. Definitely crampons. Ice axe depending on where, how far you go up, and conditions. You can always decide to not use either when you get into the bowl but at least you have an option if you have them with you.

Conditions on Thursday was perfect weather, a 10. Yet I think I encountered every kind of snow condition on my hikes up the ravine, as well as on my ski down.

I am planning on using the crampons 2 - 3 times at Tucks during the year. Also want to put my Koflachs to use doing winter hiking next year.

Any other thoughts or comments would be appreciated in my search.

Hope you have a good day on the 26th.

Paul

[pscopa]

SkiDave, M@, or others;

Any thoughts on my crampon question?

[M@]

I've said it before: If you have them, bring them. I don't have any, so I don't bring any, and haven't been motivated to get any.

My *opinion* is that you only need them for about 100 yards of the entire hike (car to top of ski run, and back to your car)

The 100 yards I refer to usually happens on the hike back down, on the trail between the bowl and HoJo, and the top part of the trail from hojo to Pinkham. Those parts get pretty icy, so it's a pain in the butt... and slipping on your butt with skiis on the pack is an expecially nasty event.

As far as hiking up your ski run, unless you're the first one there, you're gonna be in everyone elses tracks and you'll be walking in very nicely carved steps to the top.

If your blazing your own trail up, they might be necessary. I hear the lion head trail is really difficult without them. If everything is icey and you decide to go up it anyway, you might need them.

M@

[skicdave]

Hey diehard,

My wife bought a pair of those bear paw type crampons... used for $10 at EMS in North Conway... yup $10 thats cuz they were both left feet! LOL. Needed them on one of our last treks. Worked out fine.. just looked silly. Hey $10 remember...

I have Grivel crampons myself... might by the G10's. About $100 at EMS. Great for hiking boots. Made all the difference hiking up the bowl to take photos. Felt a LOT more comfortable and secure being on the steep pitch than in ski boots.

pscopa: I have no experience with any designed for ski boots or snowboard boots but I'm sure they would work well hiking up the headwall. I think the Grivel G14's are designed for ski boots. Visit the Grivel Site (http://www.grivelnorthamerica.com) for more on this.

Be sure to pack them away safely in your pack before you ski down!

[pscopa]

Thanks guys.

Paul

[diehard]

skicdave,

Yikes ! I paid full retail - $50, but I did manage to get one right and one left. Just wondering... with 2 lefts, did you find that you kept walking/hiking in counterclockwise circles ???? Or would that be clockwise circles ???

diehard

[hutley]

Crampons & ice axe work fine....but take a lesson or two, like the ones ATC or EMS offer on the proper use and self arrest. It will be money wisely spent.

[skicdave]

Hey diehard...

I did notice my wife was more than able to walk a straight line with her two left 'paws'... just looks a bit silly... sort of like a child who puts on his shoes backwards.

By the way, the International Mountain Climbing School across from EMS in North Conway had a bunch of used crampons similar to my Grivels on sale for $50... or was that $59?

Didn't use them this weekend except to ascend the bowl itself since the temps were so warm.

[pscopa]

Dave,

I will check them out.

Thanks,

Paul

[<Jerm>]

If you are using crampons to climb in Tucks, or anything over 30 degrees or so, just make sure you either have an ice axe or self-arrest grips. In the event of a fall, having just crampons is really bad because you can break your legs or start tumbling uncontrollably when they catch.

Also, FWIW, The Grivel G-12 crampomatic and G-10 lightweight automatics fit tele and alpine boots pretty well. The G-12 is a bit overkill for tucks snow climbing, but they fit ski boots nicely, are step-in, and Climb HIgh has them on sale new for $84. IME also had a ton of used Trango stepin aluminums for $25 a couple weekends ago.

[Castlerock]

Hi Paul,
I like you wanted crampons that same Thursday going up the left gully. It was hard and a hairy climb especially the turn to the shoulder between LG and Chute Variation. I'm sorry I didn't run into you.

I promised myself that I'd get crampons. As I've begun going earlier and earlier in the year, I've found a direct correlation to the need for crampons (no boot ladder, hard snow etc.)

Did you get anything yet? I'm planning on Great Gulf next weekend and I plan to have bought something by then....

[TheOctopus]

I own both crampons (step-in, 12-point) and a mountaineering axe. I have never brought crampons to Tucks. As for climbing up it, if I have to crampon up because it's so firm, I ain't going to want to ski down it. Discomfort climbing up is my check against a ski down that I might later regret.... The poster who said the most likely use for crampons is the hike between the bowl and Hojos had it right on, I think. That can get pretty icey, but I've always handled it well in hiking boots, taking my time. You might consider a pair of creepers (4-point) if this is an issue for you.

For climbing the steep but not icey stuff -- I, too, climbed LG headwall to the top this past weekend -- I shorten my poles to minimum length and use them as climbing axes, and maintain three points of contact at all times with the slope. With some practice, you'll get quick, and it's just about as safe as carrying an axe (as stable, but not as good if you've got to self-arrest a fall). An axe, obviously, would do the job here, but I don't care to carry the exrta weight for minimal extra benefit.

The most useful reason for carrying an axe (and why I've carried one in the past) is to use the adze-end of it to chop a platform if you're going to be booting up on something steep (e.g., the Chute or LG below the top of those runs) where there's really no good natural platform to boot up.

Just my $.02. Have fun and be safe whatever you do....

[pscopa]

Hey Castlerock,

It is too bad we didn't hook up.

That is the exact place that I lost my footing. For Octopuses sake, the snow conditions on the April 10th had it all (soft corn, ice, new snow, drifted snow, avi debris, wind blown piles, etc, as you know Castlerock. It was the most difficult skiing I have encountered in my 5 trips. The actual spot that I almost lost it was soft for the first 4-5 inches and then hardpack/ice. I had no trouble booting my way up the left gully that day until that spot at the top.

It was a 10 as far as the weather of the day Octopus. Sun not a cloud in the sky. Temps raange 30 -50.

Went up the 19th (Inferno Race) again but never had a chance to get the crampons. I have not made a purchase yet. From folks recomendations I am thinking Grivel 10's or 12's the step in variety. Waiting to look at the used stuff at EMS and Ragged Mt. in N Conway. I am definitely making the purchase though. Have had an ice axe since day one but have never taken up Tucks.

Hope you have good conditions if you get to the Gulf. Actually thinking about another trip if I can fit it in.

Take Care.

Paul

[Castlerock]

Yes that was a great day. I prefer the skiing when there is a smooth surface, as opposed to the real warm weather slop. To get that I end up skiing the first warm days of the season. It is always a little wierd with the first few turns up high above the bowl on hard ice, and praying that is starts feeling softer as the slope falls off (and directly faces the morning sun). But those are my favorite conditions, just a few inches of perfect corn....It is funny, I too have an ice axe that I have never brought to Tucks. But It loks like my Tucks trips are changing from a late spring casual party weekend to an early spring alpine touring experience.

I hope to see you up there!

[jshefftz]

I've seen some pretty scared-looking climbers when the boot ladder is suddenly erased by the spray of a passing skier. I think Tucks is probably the only place in the world where people climb 45-degree snow in slippery alpine downhill plastic boot soles without crampons.
I always bring my aluminum crampons with me -- very light and very cheap. Check out mec.ca and telemark-pyrenees.com, plus mountaingoatoutfitters.com has some closeout specials on the Kong models.
Don't worry about the # of pts -- all the alu models are pretty similar, except for the Kahtoola, whose front points are not very aggressive. Also, a semi-automatic model (i.e., straps in front, lever in back) will enhance versatility for other footware.
A lightweight alu axe is very helpful too.

[DMC]

Castlerock:
But It loks like my Tucks trips are changing from a late spring casual party weekend to an early spring alpine touring experience.

I hope to see you up there! Exactly what's happened to me... It's just sooooo much better earlier...
When i first started going to Tucks 15 years ago I was happy with a warm May day...

Now it's all about what routes are open and less crowds.. I actually blame all the telemarkers I hang out with... Those freeheelin guys push my limits in the back country...