A Colossally Dumb Question

[Mumster]

I'm deliberating our lack of crampons for the hike up the ravine. Once in ski boots, in the ravine, would cat tracks help? :o

<small>[ May 09, 2003, 09:52 AM: Message edited by: skicdave ]</small>

[RR]

In the soft season...now...even crampons are overkill. But, funny you should ask...I saw a few folks using them to blitz past the step trails rather than wait.

The several gizmos that slip on for traction on ice (not real crampons) might help, but they are mostly designed for flatter ground.

The steps are really pretty well kicked in on soft days. Kicking new steps off to the side when you need a breather is generally easy this time of year. Major Caveat: Sometimes it rains and then after, it often freezes...then we want crampons or an ice axe to chop steps until it softens up (the day after we leave!).

[skicdave]

At this time of the year, crampons would only be useful to climb up the ravine (or beyond to the snowfields). I'd consider crampons on your ski boots mainly for safety purposes when hiking up the bowl. ie in case you slip on the way up they can help self arrest in combination with a third point of contact such as an ice axe or adjustable poles. Relying on crampons alone to 'save the day' in the event of a fall could mean a broken leg (or two). Knowledge of self arrest technique in this regard would be highly recommended.

Slipping while climbing up in ski boots is a REAL scarey thought... I feel 1,000 X better once the boards are strapped on my feet.

If you stick to the beaten path of those ahead of you however, then your definately in a safer position.

More on this is available in the Crampon Advice (http://timefortuckerman.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=000443#000009) thread.

[targheehucker]

with warm weather up there now crampons are definately overkill... In fact, if you dont have alot of experience with them they could actually do more harm than good especially now when you dont really need them. When the snow gets this soft you dont even need a boot ladder to climb you can just kick in anywhere... plus if you slip, the snow is so soft you either will slide very slow or come to a stop quickly...

[skicdave]

Hmmm targheehucker...

I hate to disagree, but with 40-45+ slopes, even sloppy wet spring snow isn't that 'sticky'.

I've seen some horrid tumbles and windmills even in late spring. Stopping quickly is certainly likely however once your've slid or cartwheeled to below 1/3 the way up.

Best illustrated with a visual. Check out the Rag Doll Wipeoout in the Chute (http://timefortuckerman.com/videos.html) video. It was something like 62F (18C) that day in the ravine.

[BCSKIER]

I agree skicdave. Ever since I bought my crampons and ice axe I won't ever do it without. You just feel sooo much safer. Now, I'm not saying that it is much more dangerous without them. I am just saying that they have made my confidence level go wayyy up for the hiking part. Before climbing was definitely the scarriest part, now I'm not sure. I think falling ice, crevasses, undermined snow, and avalanches scare me the most now that I have the equipment. Before this year I skiied Tucks without the equipment, as do most people, but it was one of the best investments I have made yet. You can jump in just about anywhere and know that if worst comes to worst you can always find a rock and strap on the crampons to climb back up. That's more for the chutes around washington though.

[skicdave]

About the ice axe... don't forget to pack it away on the slide down! :eek:

http://timefortuckerman.com/apr14-2001/photojam5/dswmedia/img0012.jpg

[SkiStooge]

Ah, yur all a buncha sissies! I climb up barefoot in January! No boots, no shoes or socks. Not even a brain! And youse guys worry about crampons and slippin' and fallin' and stuff. &lt;Ringgggggggggg! Ringgggggggg!&gt; Oh darn, there's the alarm clock again ending another dream sequence of the bizzarre! lol. But on a real note when it comes to crampons: I find it better to have and not need than to need and not have. Have fun, be safe. Al :cool:

[BladeGirl]

skicdave:
Slipping while climbing up in ski boots is a REAL scarey thought... I feel 1,000 X better once the boards are strapped on my feet.
I agree! I slipped near the top of Hillmans this past Sunday, wearing ski boots and holding only my blades. was in the lead of three people, kicking new toe holds, when I lost it and started sliding down (fortunately, somehow not crashing into the people below). I'd read about self-arresting but now got to try it first hand: with a snowblade! used two hands to jam it in at the right angle and voila, I stopped! An experience I hope not to repeat. Next year I think I'll rent crampons.

[RR]

Hey BladeGirl...way to go. But, don't rent crampons, get your own hiking crampons...some are way under $100 and should last for many years. They are great for winter hiking in general and alpine hiking in the fall and spring. I'd suggest avoiding the plastic and webbing combinations as sooner or later the plastic will degrade. Straps can be replaced by an amazing variety of materials in a pinch.

[Jerm]

Crampons can be helpful (although I dont usually use them) but remember, they WILL NOT help you self arrest. You need an ice axe or self-arrest poel grips for that, and the ability to use them. Self arresting with crampons is a great way to start a hideous tumble, break your legs, and/or stab yourself.

[TheOctopus]

What Jerm said.

My own $.08 is if you're not familiar with crampons, they're probably more harm than good on steep terrain. Best Tucks use is low-angle, icy stuff -- i.e., the hike to the floor of the ravine when the ground is that special kind of icy madness between snow and wet rock....

And another potential danger is that the gear gives you confidence to climb stuff that you're then not comfortable skiing. And I would want to have to down-climb anything in Tucks. Ugh.

-The Octopus

[SkiStooge]

Regarding purchasing crampons. I have one word (but it takes a bit of faith to do it this way):e-Bay. I got mine on there from a guy in N. Carolina. Paid $20. They retail at like $160. It is best if you have a way to verify what you are getting from the seller (i.e. he has good knowledge of equiptment and NOT just the ability to read specs off of a box) With the right seller and a little good old-fashioned luck, you can get a heck of a good deal sometimes. Have fun, be safe. Al :cool:

[Jerm]

FYI, IME in North Conway had (a few weeks ago) a boatload of used Trango aluminum 12-pt cramps they were unloading for ~25 buck/pr. They had fewer but still many ice axes in the same price range.