Crampons?!?!?!

[Diddler05]

Halfway up the headwall during my first to Tucks and then again on my way back down the trail I began to dream of having crampons. :unhappyhiker: How many of you regulars use them and what's the cheapest pair worth buying? :yardsale: I'm hoping to get a pair to go over my snowboard boots so i can have some grip going up the headwall and also to fit on my hiking boots for the snowy parts of the trail. Is this possible? I dont know anything about crampons. :doh:

[DMC]

Grivel G10 wides will fit your snowboard boots and your hiking boots..

[RR]

Yup...what he said!

[Rider.Steve]

You can also switch to hard snowboard boots (or AT ski boots) with plate bindings, and use semi-automatic crampons with bales. Rock solid on the climb, and with AT ski boots you don't need hiking boots anymore.

Steve

[PWDR8S]

I don't do the boarding thing but yeah...crampons are quite handy and by virtue of their tenacity on the steeps, they help reassure yourself and others below that you are not likely to take them out accidentally. Go lightweight if you can... the regular steel ones tend to feel heavier as the day grows long.

[mainwaring]

I don't do the boarding thing but yeah...crampons are quite handy and by virtue of their tenacity on the steeps, they help reassure yourself and others below that you are not likely to take them out accidentally. Go lightweight if you can... the regular steel ones tend to feel heavier as the day grows long.


i can't believe i'm going to go against p8's, but i'd recommend steel or chromoly blend cramps. unless you are a serious weight weenie, or are only going to use them on snow, then alus are great. otherwise, steel or blended are indeed heavier (a # or so) but they will not get dulled as quickly when you are rock hopping, which is almost inevitable on the e coast.

for snowboard boots, the grivels dmc mentioned, BD contact straps, or charlet moser vaseks work well. i have the petzl/charlet's and i would caution that they have rotated off of my boots a few times, though i still like the design and hold of 12 pointers.

[Sledhaulingmedic]

Only thing I'd add:

I might be old school (getting old, anyway), but if you need crampons, you need a means to arrest (i.e. Ice axe).

Crampons are great and should negate the need for an axe until you're on steep terrain and you:

Trip, slip. get knocked over

Have a crampon come loose or come off

Are forced to move laterally in a hurry because of falling ice, sliding snow, out of control yahoo, giant slobbering Newfie-dog chasing after his master, etc..

No experience with aluminum. I have Grivel's only because I occationally climb packed powder that I won't ski down.

[DMC]

I might be old school (getting old, anyway), but if you need crampons, you need a means to arrest (i.e. Ice axe).

Yup.... Ask Elwood... Always have the axe out when climbing in crampons...

I carry an axe all the time - instead of poles...

[M@]

I use crampons that only fit on my ski boots.

I don't have an axe - but will probably have one soon. I have yet to take the avy course or any real climbing training, so I didn't want an axe I didn't know how to use. The crampons I figured out how to use on my own.

Pretty much every year before I had them I expierenced some major "terror climbing" in the ravine. The year I got them I was like a cat stuck to the wall - it was night and day. It's till a damn exausting climb, but no terror involved.

I want to get an axe. I agree you should have one if you have crampons, but when I do tux and am on the steeps I've got my skiis over my shoulder (personal choice) and I use them as an arrest device. An axe would be better.

Having read this - please don't go do something stupid. I'd hate to see us have to stop giving advice becuase someone did something stupid and pointed at us saying, "They told me to do it."

Make sure you get crampons that fit.

M@

[PWDR8S]

i can't believe i'm going to go against p8's, but i'd recommend steel or chromoly blend cramps. unless you are a serious weight weenie, or are only going to use them on snow, then alus are great. otherwise, steel or blended are indeed heavier (a # or so) but they will not get dulled as quickly when you are rock hopping, which is almost inevitable on the e coast.

for snowboard boots, the grivels dmc mentioned, BD contact straps, or charlet moser vaseks work well. i have the petzl/charlet's and i would caution that they have rotated off of my boots a few times, though i still like the design and hold of 12 pointers.

You have a very valid point and I've noticed I'm becoming a weight weenie...:doh: ..... I may need to cunsult :drphil: about this affliction.....

Aluminum Crampons are pretty much only good for snow and soft ice due to the softness of the metal whereas up on the mount you come across everything including rocks and very hard ice. Steel 12 pointers would be good all around abuse takers that would give you many years of good use. I've got 2 sets for 2 different sets of boots. An ax/pick is very handy to have and M@ made a good point about learning to use it before putting yourself into a situation where you might HAVE to use it.
One crucial aspect of wearing crampons is making sure they do not come pff mid climb.... it's a real nuisance to put back on and you break your pace.

[pulverschwein]

please don't go do something stupid. I'd hate to see us have to stop giving advice becuase someone did something stupid and pointed at us saying, "They told me to do it."

Make sure you get crampons that fit.
Yup. And practice using them and an axe on moderate terrain before you get into a situation where you're on 50 degree water ice learning how to front point. Hate to be preachy, but I have to echo M@ on this point.

I got 12 point steels and carry an axe when BC boarding - if you've got ski poles, they can be a decent self-arrest tool if properly used. When skiing, I just have regular tele poles without self-arrest grips and they are adequate for me, but I'm not great on teles and usually not climbing ultra-steep pitches.

One final word of caution: figure out where all them sharp pointy things go on your pack on the way down before you get up there so that they don't puncture or impale you in the event of a fall. It sounds simple, but I sometimes carry a 70 cm mountaineering axe which is basically the length of my torso and I have to carry a full-sized pack to accomodate it without having it smack me helmet, hinder or poke me brainstem. :eek:

Hate to pontificate, but I'd rather you think I'm lecturing from my high horse than to see someone get hurt.

[PWDR8S]

Yeah.... I think most people aren't into being poked and proded by sharp pointy things. Dull pointy things another whole issue... right ladies? :D ;)

[surf88]

:snowboarding: You can also switch to hard snowboard boots (or AT ski boots) with plate bindings, and use semi-automatic crampons with bales. Rock solid on the climb, and with AT ski boots you don't need hiking boots anymore.

I just use Koflach Verticals (hard mountaineering boots) they fit in my regular bindings nicely. That way I can use my crampons, and I also have a pair of MSR snow shoes that clip on so you dont post-hole up the trails when the snow is deep. I ve become so used to riding in them I hardly ever use my real snowboard boots, even when riding the park. They are also a heck of a lot warmer and more comfortable to hike in.
And... since you'll then have half the equiptment you might as well buy some axes to.:D Then when staying at the shelters you can skip over to huntington and climb.

[Justin]

Halfway up the headwall during my first to Tucks and then again on my way back down the trail I began to dream of having crampons. :unhappyhiker: How many of you regulars use them and what's the cheapest pair worth buying?

I have a pair but they havn't been used in a few years... I'm in the minorities around here but I don't use them. When I moved back east I thought people were kidding when they said the took crampons skiing -- I never saw skiers carry them until I returned. Sure they are grippy but they can be quite dangerous if you slip or something. i.e. Ice axe. Not to mention you gotta ski down with those pointy things and most importantly, If I NEED them to get up, do I really want to ski it? This subject has come up ALOT search the forums and you'll find some good info I'm sure.
:yardsale: I'm hoping to get a pair to go over my snowboard boots so i can have some grip going up the headwall and also to fit on my hiking boots for the snowy parts of the trail. Is this possible? I dont know anything about crampons. :doh:
I'd also recommend a chromoly blend. I'm not a weight weenie at all. I'll spend a few bucks more for something a little lighter but I'll drop a whole bunch more for something with superior performance and solid strength.

BTW, I never used the ALums...

[RR]

Stowing the pons is an easy thing and there are real nice ways to cover the several pointy parts of an axe...

Justin is right about not really needing pons...well, allll-most right. There is one teensey tinesey part of Tux skiing that one might want to consider. Most folks starting from Pinkham get to the Ravine et al around 10:30AM or later. By then the snow is softened up and crampons, the axe too, are as useful as tits on a boar.

Then again if you are an eager beaver and bound to have first tracks you will need the pons and excellent timing to climb the solid and slick just in time to stow the gear, wet your whistle, take a photo or two and get FIRST CORN ;)

Naturally, it's more dangerous on the firm/fast and sometimes there's a horde right on your heels....but mostly that 7AM above the Lip corn, and the 9AM Top of Left corn will be all yours!

If it's already soft leave the stuff with your brew...otherwise, happy first tracks!

[surf88]

Yup.... Ask Elwood... Always have the axe out when climbing in crampons...

I carry an axe all the time - instead of poles...

Its better to have one and not need it, then need one and not have it. :rolleyes:
One thing about crampons that most people dont think of until the poop hits the fan is; what if one comes loose? This happened to me once when doing some mixxed climbing with no rope. :eek: Since then I have practiced re-attaching my crampons while hanging off an axe or ice screw. Even if your not planning on climbing anything that technical, if you are in a spot that you need crampons, you need a third anchor point.

[Diddler05]

Thanks for all the advice everyone. You all gave me some good stuff to think about. No one really said definitely get crampons so I dont really know if I will get them for next season. I have a few months to think about it though. Either way I'll you next spring.

[jshefftz]

No one really said definitely get crampons...
Okay, I'll say it then: if you care about your safety, then definitely get crampons, and definitely alu. Ice axe too.
I think Tuckerman Ravine must be the only 50-degree snow-covered pitch in the world where only a small minority of climbers have crampons or ice axe.
Yes, the vast majority of the time you can get away without crampons or ice axe, but given how light an all-alu set is, why take that risk? Sometimes the boot ladder up a popular route is so well-defined and the snow is so soft that crampons points are either superfluous or are just going to sheer away anyway, but more often you still encounter a few firm sections and/or a section that just got wiped out by an inconsiderate skier.
As for alu vs. steel, I use my steel crampons only when I’m going to encounter *lots* of steep clear ice and/or rocks. Lowe’s Path up to Grey Knob cabin is a good (actually, nasty) example. Otherwise, I’ve used my alu crampons almost exclusively now for seven or so seasons, encountering quite a few rocks along the way. I’ve sharpened them only once or twice over this period. In late June they worked just fine heading up a couple thousand vertical of very firm early-morning refrozen snow on Shasta’s West Face. (I do wish though that I had brought my longer BD Raven Pro with a real alloy spike instead of my very short Camp XLA 210 axe with its more basic spike.)
Just stay away - far away, especially from other people using them! - from the Kahtoola crampons: their front points are way too small for steep terrain, and are very prone to sheering away.
Also, a basic self-arrest course is helpful: used incorrectly, crampons and ice axe can be more dangerous than nothing at all.

[RR]

Jon's direct answer says it all....

They are in my pack...or on my boots. Get some and an axe....if Tux is a kicking off point for you you will find them usefull as your adventures take you higher and steeper.

Jon's heavier than he looks due to being in shape :eek: but at his weight Alu is a great choice. I go about 200 lbs when I'm not in shape (most of the time these days)....steel pons for me. 10 points is fine for me. BD, Grivel and Simond make light, steel, hiking crampons.

The Grivels are available for snow board boots.

[Justin]

Okay, I'll say it then: if you care about your safety, then definitely get crampons, and definitely alu. Ice axe too.
I think Tuckerman Ravine must be the only 50-degree snow-covered pitch in the world where only a small minority of climbers have crampons or ice axe.



Funny, I'd have to say that I see MORE crampons at TUX -- and a good portion of them are on springtime yahoos....

I'd attribute this to our icy...errr...firm... conditions.

[Rider.Steve]

My Cassin pons don't fit on my new T1 duckbill boots. I'm a long way from tele skiing on severe steeps, but has anyone dealt with this?

[ATP]

My Cassin pons don't fit on my new T1 duckbill boots. I'm a long way from tele skiing on severe steeps, but has anyone dealt with this?

No. It is hopeless. Your winter is ruined. Send the crampons to me, so you needn't dwell on the implications.

[RR]

No. It is hopeless. Your winter is ruined. Send the crampons to me, so you needn't dwell on the implications.Got a nice chuckle out of that, Reps!

[pulverschwein]

My Cassin pons don't fit on my new T1 duckbill boots. I'm a long way from tele skiing on severe steeps, but has anyone dealt with this?
I'm also far from tele-ing dutchess, but I have used me Camp 12 points (non step-in, straps) w/ me duckbill leather boots - right behind front points there's an adjustment screw that will open wide enough to accomodate the bill. They stay on, but with the huge toe you don't really feel like you're getting the great bite like you would with mountaineering boots. My pons gotta be 15 yrs old, but I'd bet they still make em.

[Rider.Steve]

No. It is hopeless. Your winter is ruined. Send the crampons to me, so you needn't dwell on the implications.

Nice to see that entrepreneurship is alive and well. You get points on this one for sure!

[nymph40]

once tyied rope around my boot that real cheap . an it helped