Old gear better than new? Article about Mallory

[BeerMouse]

Found this aticle on one of my trade websites.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/5076634.stm


I read it and thought it was interesting so did a little more digging. The "research" that backs up the claim that the old style gear is better and more effective is anecdotal at best. 1 climber spent 2 days on Everest in the gear in perfect weather. Also, the lighter weight factor... they include the boots! The whole ensemble from the 20's weighed 4160g, a typical outfit today weighs 4825g - Plastic mountaineering boots are significantly (25% or more) heavier than the leather boots.

[PWDR8S]

Mmmmm.... leather http://www.timefortuckerman.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif

Interesting...thanx for posting that... Taking the best of both modern and 'old' tech is best I think... But it all depends on what the use is.

[Justin]

I like my big honkin' red TRaces, thank you very much... ;)

[stoneman]

This is just BS. Their on mountain "tests" lasted two days, hardly enough time to come to a realistic conclusion. Without disecting the article in detail, just two things jump out at me - other than the short testing period;
1. Boots 40% heavier - quite possibly true, but does that make them better. I'd rather keep my toes thank you. Are they including the weight of crampons, which were not available in the 20's, but are univerally part of the the "modern" foot gear?

2. Did they test any of the old stuff in wet condidtions? My guess; in two days is probably not. Natural fibers(wool, whatever) maybe are warm when wet, but they get real heavy too. Measure the respective weights after a couple of weeks on the mountain. I'll bet the new stuff is in better shape.

Hey i'm pretty much retro when it comes to gear, but this is silly.

[pulverschwein]

1. Are they including the weight of crampons, which were not available in the 20's, but are univerally part of the the "modern" foot gear?

2. Did they test any of the old stuff in wet condidtions? My guess; in two days is probably not. Natural fibers(wool, whatever) maybe are warm when wet, but they get real heavy too. Measure the respective weights after a couple of weeks on the mountain. I'll bet the new stuff is in better shape.

1. Henri Grivel made (10 point) crampons commercially available in 1910, though most mountaineers (Mallory included) continued to use hobnailed boots until the 30s. Hobnails, although not as effective as 12-points (as demonstrated during the 1938 Eiger Nordwand first ascent) are a substitute for crampons. Therefore, in my mind the weight comparison of modern boots with crampons to Mallory's hobnailed boots is legitimate.

2. I agree with your opinion that the short comparison is of limited value due to the scant variety of conditions experienced. However, I think your point about natural fibers getting heavy when wet is somewhat misplaced. You are correct: wool gets heavier, but stays warm when wet. In contrast, down (the modern standard insulation for Himalayan climbers) loses almost all insulating value when wet. At Himalayan elevations, getting wet is an exceptional occurrence and is generally the result of poor planning on the part of the climber, not exposure to the elements. This leads me to conclude that an experiment of greater duration would yield comparable results.

Sorry for being nitpicky, but I am (with the exception of my Gore addiction) a retrogear afficionado. Though this article has me thinking about a gabardine parka. Thanks for posting, Beermouse.

[RR]

One of these minutes Affix will spot this and laugh at both sides.

The answer:
http://www.alaskamountaineering.com/AMHimages/Products/footwear/l/lasportnuptse.jpg
La Sportiva rocks!

here is a real nice thumbnail comparison:
http://www.climbing.com/print/equipment/boots218/index1.html

Double leather boots worth having cost 100,200 and upwards of 400 dollars more than high end plastics....pay and go...as you choose.

Insulated overboots and my Nepal Extremes will be all I need or want for Denali and anythying lower.

[NtrentT]

I need some warmer boots for winter travel, I have some old EMS boots which are great, but are not the warmest.

[RR]

I need some warmer boots for winter travel, I have some old EMS boots which are great, but are not the warmest.THere are lots of good choices....major hint...take the Mrs shopping for hers first....

There are winter "hikers" on the market that are insulated and pretty light...under 2.5 lbs usually..not only that but at $130 and under they are a good value too.

this men's model is about $80 at Campmor...on sale for under 70:
http://www.campmor.com/images/footwear/15742.jpg

[PWDR8S]

How about a pair of these?

http://timefortuckerman.com/photopost/data/500/16591095.jpg
La Sportiva Mega Ice

Just don't be jumpin' on the waterbed or your mom's hardwood floors with these! http://www.timefortuckerman.com/forums/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[RR]

ahh, the Rosa Klebb specials...

Sherman, set the way back machine for 1962....

http://www.jamesbondmm.co.uk/images/bond-villains/frwl/ll009.jpg

[Skilasnow]

Interesting article.

As P8s said, a mix of the two (modern and Malloryan) is probably a good bet for today, minus the buttons. I prefer silk and wool, with fleece and goretex (or other similar materials) as a general rule.

But to the naysayers, I say this:

1. The purpose was not to prove that old gear is better than new gear, but to show that the clothing wasn't what killed them. While this is'nt 'proven', they show significant evidence to suggest that Mallory was adequately garbed, and I have no problem beleiving that.

2. Hillary's gear couldn't have been much different, still no Goretex, lots of wool, though Grivels could certainly have made a difference in a slippery situation over hobnails.

3. Cotton is fantastic! . . . . . . . . :skiplow:

[PWDR8S]

.......

3. Cotton is fantastic! . . . . . . . . :skiplow: http://timefortuckerman.com/photopost/data/774/1659naughty.gif
What choo sayin' Willis?
http://timefortuckerman.com/photopost/data/774/1659gary_coleman.jpg

On behalf of the T4T members... these smileys are for you....
http://timefortuckerman.com/photopost/data/774/1659tomato.gif
http://timefortuckerman.com/photopost/data/774/1659thwak.gif
Time to bring in Vito and Luigi....http://timefortuckerman.com/photopost/data/774/1659gangup1.gif

Now what was that about cotton?