?worth it

[Mumster]

I'm mourning the loss of snow in the Poconos and discovered this place while searching for ski opportunities up north - A couple questions to help decide whether to make the trip:

1. How late in the season do people ski?
2. My family and I ski almost exclusively on hard groomed surfaces - Racing. but also have done a few easy back bowls out west - Would this experience be realistic for us at this time of year? Is the terrain typically deep, sloppy, moguled out, etc at this time of year?
3. I have a pair of old scream/Pilots. Would they do, or do you recommend renting skis?

[RR]

Com'on down! Yes it's worth it, for the weekend or a long weekend. It's a day trip for me from Boston, long and tiring, more so now because of the hiking out being neccessary, but worth it.

There will be the odd mogully patch here and there, but it's so friggen steep up high that most people can't do that many beautiful, mogul making turns.

The odds of getting any kind of pow this time of year are rather remote. It's happened of course, but pretty rare.

The snow is mostly 1/16th inch cubes of re-frozen, sometimes smaller sometimes bigger. Early in the morning it's stiff, and much like a groomer. Late in a cooling day it sets up stiff again. In between it's very carvy, a bit sloppy, but the steepness makes it much easier to handle than one might quess.

I've used Fixed heelers of all types: Kastle Red (soft mogully-quick), Head DH (stable tough to turn), Rossi 3G (stable, easier to turn, my current on Piste sticks)...the real secret is, sharp edges, just in case it's cold enough to get icy...it's still gonna be all about carving or jump turns, but edges are key either way.

Free heeling: Kazama Couloirs (I wish I could ski better) and Elan Carbons (hey, I ski better, hope these puppies stick, but wow are they snappy...I haven'ty taken them to the ravine, but they might not go this year.)

AT: Just got some Merites w/Silvretta 500, they will be going, fingers crossed.

See ya there!

[pjmanchester]

1. depends on how much snow there is for the season. This year i would say well into June.
2. The surface this time of year is never powder.
in the mornings before the sun warms it up it is hard pack/ice, and if the sun is out and it is warm then the snow corns up by noon or so, depending on wind and cloudiness.
3. as someone said on a different post, the shorter the skis the better, for a couple of reasons, carrying them up is much easier and maneuviring them on the bowl is a lot easier.
my first couple of times up there i used 195 screams and they were just fine but heavy for the hike.
now i use 163 twin tip vokyl's for my trip...much easier on the hike up.

hope this helps out your decision

no matter what it is a good time, even if you only ski a little bit, it is well worth it

[Skilasnow]

A common misconception about the bowl, especially in the spring is that you have to be an expert to ski at all. This simply isn't so. The first time I went up there I would struggle to get down a short mogul slope, didn't know what to do in powder and would only tackle a serious off piste bowl if it was spring corn, I typically skied blue or black cruisers. I hiked up about a 1/4 - 1/3 of the way up the bowl and that was plenty steep for me, put my skis on and had the best, most enjoyable, 60 seconds of skiing I had ever had. The key thing is NOT to hike farther than you can ski back and just about anyone can ski the bowl.

[targheehucker]

agree with las...

hike till you reach your freak factor - it could be 100 or 1000 feet and typically it gets higher with each visit. heck i just hiked my first year and i have been skiing for 24 years

the snow and ravine will be "perfect" till mid-may but consult short term forecast for more specific conditions...

and if this site doesnt help you decide whether it is worth it or not, uhhh, i dont know what to tell ya...

[Skilasnow]

To add:

Some amount of fitness is needed {I am not especially fit}. The hike up to the bowl can be tiresome, but take it as you can - don't be spurred on just because some people pass you - if you start early even as late as 10:00 - and it takes you 4:00 to get there, you can still enjoy the spirit of the people there at lunch rocks and enjoy a fantastic run or two and hike down in the twilight. Just don't burn out on the hike up. I usually do the hike in 2.5 to 4.0 depending largely on how much I am carrying {beer} and how much I ingested the night before {beer}. And all I ever expect is one (1) great run! If it goes to three (3) or four (4) AWESOME, but don't forget you HAVE to HIKE back DOWN!

My first hike back down - I left the bowl around 5:00pm knowing if I skied again I would be wiped. So I left - sunshine, T-shirt, shorts, 55 degrees, fantastic! Before I got to hojos (20 mins) it was hailing golf balls, and I couldn't see the bowl for fog - I thought of all the people I had seen still in the bowl, those poor bas__rds. It poured rain the entire way, which, once I was soaked, was quite good. I think that was the best time I ever made hiknig from hojos to Pinkham - not because I wanted to get out of the rain, but because it kept cooling me off and I could hike hard without overheating.

Any-hoo I think you should come up and let common sense decide how far you go!
:)

[Mumster]

I appreciate the input - it sounds like too much fun to resist. :) Any ideas on places to stay that are easy and relatively inexpensive?

BTW, nice messageboard.

[M@]

Would this experience be realistic for us This might depend on your family. I've seen Father and Son groups where the son was just not enjoying the hike up, and then the opposite, where the son was up over the lip before the dad was in the bowl. So I guess the only problem would be if your family is going to mind a 2 hr hike carrying all the equipment they need. If you think they can handle this, you will be giving them a very deep-seeded permanant memory of how totally kewl their parents are.

M@

[Mumster]

Hi M@:

Lucky for me, my son is totally obsessed with skiing and would hike up anything to get to ski after the regular ski season ends.....Skidad will be the one we have to drag up.....

Just a guess, my son may join the website when he finds out that you are still skiing - watch out for posts from skidudeski ....

[Skilasnow]

I've never stayed there myself but I always here good thing about the Royalty Inn, this sites only advertiser. The Village Inn in Jackson is nice, Big Hot Tub for all and some of the rooms have Jacuzzi tubs and/or kitchenettes, it is self check in so you can check out all the available rooms and decide which one you want. I think they were $80 /room. 3 of us brought an aero bed and shared one room, it was pretty comfortable, and we had a kitchenette-ette, good enough to toast a bagel and that Jacuzzi tub was SO good after all the hiking

[M@]

Attitash Village is nice: Stayed in unit 8L, 3 floors: Great Big living room, big master bRoom, double bed loft on 3rd floor. Good sized kitchen. Great heated pool/gameRoom, Indoor/Outdoor Jacuzzi.

Attitash Grand Summit: Hotel type place, small kitchenette, outdoor heated pool and jacuzzis. Biggest bonus here is the slope-side to attitash, so it might not be worth a non-ski-season rate. Just an opinion.

That's my lodging expierence in the area. I think I'm gonna stay Joe Dodge Lodge next time I go if I can, it sounds fun.

M@

[skicdave]

Yup Royalty Inn is a great option. I've stayed there a few times. Only 10 minutes from Tucks too and they have an indoor pool. April 1-May 24th its only $59 for a standard room.

The past few years we usually stay at Attitash due to the size of our group. Only cost us $32 US total per person (about $48 Cdn, and that was for a 3 night stay. Mind you we were 10 people in one unit but we had plenty of room.

[targheehucker]

defintely royalty inn all the way

its $56 a night (just say tuckerman special) and can sleep 4 comfortably with the pool and hot tub who can beat it. Its the only place Ive ever stayed up there except when I had a NH girlfriend. Oh those Stratford chicks - gotta watch out for em!!!

[Mumster]

Hey, what's the likelihood we will see a naked guy if we come up? I just noticed that topic.....

;)

[skicdave]

You never know... I'd think Naked Guy has to save up between runs (its a $250 fine I believe). Probably depends on the weather too... I think he would prefer nice sunny days with a good size crowd... can't imagine streaking the ravine when its cold, foggy and your the only one there...

[M@]

If the weather forcast was for good weather, and it turned out to be good weather, I think you've got a 33% chance of seeing a naked guy. In 5 years, I've heard of 2 streaking incidents.

M@

[skicdave]

Is it really worth the long drive and hike up for that skimom? LOL

[Mumster]

I'm just trying to fully weigh the pros and cons involved in the trip.

Would it be worth driving from Phili to see a naked skier?....not likely. But, the opportunity to experience the adventure and get to ski in May is a lot to resist when the only real negative is the drive up and a slavish work schedule. The naked skier just adds an interesting twist - :D

[Skilasnow]

I know it is just semantics ... but I can't decide which is better:

"better off piste than piste off"

or

"better off piste than pissed off"

:rolleyes:

[SkiStooge]

Soloution for Skimom: Fly from Philly to Manchester, rent a car and drive about an hour and a half. Save time and your sanity. Be safe, have fun. Al

Quote: "Sometimes you just have to say 'What the fu**.'"

[M@]

I liked the "pissed off" one better. I, for one, wasn't sure how Piste was pronounced for a while.

M@

[Skilasnow]

Piste is pronounced more liked peaced or pieced

[Mumster]

Two more questions:

Is there a best place to park once we get there?

Should we bring any special type of footware, gloves, etc for the hike up the ravine?

[M@]

Parking: Trail head is right behind the pinkham notch visitor center. On a nice weekend that lot (100cars?) fills up, and there's another 100 car lot 1/4mile down the road south. There's usually cars parked all along rt 16 as well.

So, there is no parking secret really. But if you think about it, you're just about to hike for 2 hours, is parking 5 min from the trail head a real problem?

M@

[Mumster]

My husband was worried about parking - he doesn't mind hiking up the mountain, but doesn't also want to hike TO the mountain. He should be able to handle a short walk...

My more significant lingering questions are things like:

crampons. There was a previous topic on this, but most of the posts were earlier in the season when the ravine was more icey. We don't have any and I don't know much about them. With a target date in May, how important are these? And should they fit hiking boots or ski boots or both?

Our dins are low - in the 5-7 range. Should we have them cranked up?

BTW, the responses thus far have been helpful. I appreciate everyone's taking the time to answer...we have a ridiculous drive to get there, so I want to maximize the likelihood it will be an atomic experience once we finally arrive.....

[roland rock]

As far as cranking your DINs up, you only need to do that if you are concernded about pre-release. I don't worry about it, but others do. Your skis can definitely get away from you.
Crampons are worthwhile, especially for the walk down, which can be slippery. Simple 4 point crampons are light and make the hike out much easier.
I carry a simple sling made from 8' of 1" nylon webbing to carry my skis on my back up the bowl. it's way easier than carrying your skis on your shoulder, which is what most people do.
Royalty Inn is fine, but it's in Gorham, which is almost an hour north of Conway. It's not worth the extra drive for me.
RR

[skicdave]

I agree with Roland Rock. Now that the snow has been receeding, crampons are worthwhile more for the hike down than up and you only need enough to keep you from slipping such as Yaktrax's or other shorts of basic crampon devices (4 points under the arch are fine too).

The Royalty Inn may be 45 minutes or so north of North Conway which may add a bit for those driving up the night before from the south via Rte 16, however its nice to only have only a 10 minute drive to Pinkham on your ski day when your dragging butt to get ready and up the mountain as soon as possible. It might also help you from drooling over the Factory Outlet malls in North Conway :eek: Save that activity as a reward for doing a front flip off the headwall.

Oh about DIN... don't attempt fiddling with this unless you know what your doing! Not necessary either, especially if you are only skiing the bottom section of the bowl.

[TheOctopus]

Parking: If it's an epic weather weekend, the lot at Pinkham will quickly fill, and the overflow lot a few hundred yards to the south (i.e., closer to N. Conway) will fill up, too. It may be necessary if that happens, and if they're being fascist about parking on Rte. 16, to park at the Wildcat ski area, about 1/2 mile to the North. This definitely sucks, and can be avoided by an earlier, rather than later, start.

Gloves; stuff for hike up: I personally pass on gloves unless it's freezing or close to it. I do carry a pair of fleece gloves in case I want them and I carry a separate pair of ski gloves for the actual skiing part of the trip. I carry a few layers in my pack "just in case," but almost always hike in shorts and a synthetic short-sleeve t-shirt.

Footware: check out the crampons thread for more on that. If you use them at all, it's probably on the hike out between the bowl and HoJos -- the snow below HoJo's is now nearly all gone. Whether you'd want them would be a function of how icy things are and how comfortable you are with slippery footing. I'd only use them if there are significant icy stretches -- you don't want to be taking them on and off repeatedly, and hiking on anything other than ice or snow with them is a real bad scene. If you use them, I'd definitely use them on hiking, rather than ski, boots. Down-hiking in ski boots is doable, but I think it's pretty tricky stuff.

[TEO]

Two, make that three, things:

A) Crampons--if it is soft corn snow leave them at home (or in the car) and save yourself some weight. The idea of wearing them (even the four-point variety) seems rather ludicrous. Do you all really find the Tuckerman Ravine Trail (below Hojos) that steep? Tevas will do the trick just fine.

B) Piste off vs. Pissed off. There's even a question about this? You don't get the play on words, huh? Or is it to difficult to work out?

C) DIN settings, depends on your weight and skill, but 5-7 range seems awfully low. Don't be afraid to crank it up a bit, the last thing you want to do is lose a ski halfway down.

--TEO

[DMC]

TEO:
Do you all really find the Tuckerman Ravine Trail (below Hojos) that steep? Tevas will do the trick just fine. It's not about the steepness - it's about the ice....
Try walking the trail back on solid ice with a 60 pound pack on your back...
I use the four point - instep crampons for hiking. Maybe you don't need them now - but two weeks ago they were a God send...

[Mumster]

TheOctopus:
Parking: If it's an epic weather weekend, the lot at Pinkham will quickly fill, and the overflow lot a few hundred yards to the south (i.e., closer to N. Conway) will fill up, too. It may be necessary if that happens, and if they're being fascist about parking on Rte. 16, to park at the Wildcat ski area, about 1/2 mile to the North. This definitely sucks, and can be avoided by an earlier, rather than later, start.

What's early? Before the sun rises??? And, does the trail to the ravine close overnight? I'd rather get up the trail before the mobs arrive ...

[skicdave]

Hey skimum,

Love the Avatar!

Before 8am you'll be ok as far as parking goes. The Tuckerman Ravine Trail never closes. Sometimes people arrive late, and hike up at night with a headlamp.

Be on the trail by 8am and you'll avoid the crowds. Definately have the trail to yourself at 2am (except for the boogie man :eek: )

[M@]

-Trail never closes. I've hiked in moonlight many times.
-Parking lots fill around 9:45am on really good weekend, a direct function of weather forcast.
-I've never used crampons. Only wanted them for 100yrds, if your own them, bring them.
-DIN Setting: Add 2, pulled calf is better than banged head. Don't sue me.

Go.
Do it.
Take pictures.
Report back.

M@

[skicdave]

Ok in that case... I correct myself (see above)...

Be on the trail by 8am and you'll avoid the crowds. Definately have the trail to yourself at 2am (except for the boogie M@n)

If your at Pinkham by 8am, you might have a chance at the parking lot right at Pinkham. After that you might have to park at the next parking lot over and have to hike about 500ft on a fairly level trail of cement crossing a bridge about midway. That should add about... hmmm 2% to your hike? Hey I'll get back to you on this one.

Maybe we need a new section on the site... Guide to Parking at Pinkham Notch :eek:

[skidude]

skimom:
Hi M@:

Lucky for me, my son is totally obsessed with skiing and would hike up anything to get to ski after the regular ski season ends.....Skidad will be the one we have to drag up.....

Just a guess, my son may join the website when he finds out that you are still skiing - watch out for posts from skidudeski .... I am here now...Trust me I am probably the most obsessed with skiing person you will/have ever met. :cool: but hey at least I admit it. Skimom is right I would do anything to ski after "my" season ends...I am really looking forward to coming up here...I will make sure to bring a camara and take some pics.
ANyway until then ski fast and have a good timee...Remember you only live once and you have all summer to heal