2 wax or not 2 wax

[Justin]

Still havn't settled on a pair of touring skis yet. Seeing as it's now "Juneuary" I wonder if I even should :P

Kinda on the fence about wether to go wax or waxless. I know how to wax my alpines with the appropriate wax but as far as kick waxes go I'm pretty much in the dark.

Is worth going the wax route for a "waxing newbie" or should I stick to the waxless?

[RR]

Still havn't settled on a pair of touring skis yet. Seeing as it's now "Juneuary" I wonder if I even should :P

Kinda on the fence about wether to go wax or waxless. I know how to wax my alpines with the appropriate wax but as far as kick waxes go I'm pretty much in the dark.

Is worth going the wax route for a "waxing newbie" or should I stick to the waxless?Wax eloquently and wait for everyone on waxless...

Sorry about the mixed metaphor....

Wax is fast and you can set up for the days conditions in a jiffy...even out on a trip.

here is the best place to start: http://home.comcast.net/~pinnah/DirtbagPinner/wax.html

[el-bagr]

Wax. I am 100% waxable and only infrequently look back. I think most of the waxless patterns out there suck, especially Fischer, and even Karhu's positive pattern is nowhere near as sticky as wax. When touring in larger parties, I'm usually one of the only waxers, but am often the only one who doesn't end up skinning -- wax works.

It takes a bit of getting used to -- slightly different way of pressuring the ski base into the snow for grip -- and you'll have to develop a way to know the snow temp and crystal conditions to match the right wax, but if you like tinkering (like doing your own tunes and mounting) then wax is the best.

[Justin]

but if you like tinkering (like doing your own tunes and mounting) then wax is the best.


Hmmm, I'm still mulling it over but I think I might take the plunge. I'm at home right now with sore mouth -- widsom teeth were yanked this A.M. Man is that a wierd feeling when they put you under :eek:. Doctor told me to take it easy but my "Custom tuning bench" in the attic is still wasting reconstruction from our move...

I have a hard time staying still... :rolleyes:

[PWDR8S]

Hmmm, I'm still mulling it over but I think I might take the plunge. I'm at home right now with sore mouth -- widsom teeth were yanked this A.M. Man is that a wierd feeling when they put you under :eek:. Doctor told me to take it easy but my "Custom tuning bench" in the attic is still wasting reconstruction from our move...

I have a hard time staying still... :rolleyes:
AVOID SHARP OBJECTS AND POWERTOOLS! http://www.timefortuckerman.com/forums/images/smilies/tongue.gif So just move stuff around and prep stuff for working on later.... you'll be all goofy from being under the rest of the day.

[Justin]

AVOID SHARP OBJECTS AND POWERTOOLS! http://www.timefortuckerman.com/forums/images/smilies/tongue.gif So just move stuff around and prep stuff for working on later.... you'll be all goofy from being under the rest of the day.


Ya, i fell pretty good right now ;)

[ATP]

I'm not too far from getting a low-angled touring setup and have considered this question myself. I happily tune my alpine/AT gear, but that's only one pair of skis. I'm thinking of equipping the wife as well, and I'll be doing any necessary tuning or waxing on both our setups. How long does the process take? Am I right to assume that this is an every time out activity (even without changing conditions)?

[el-bagr]

I'm not too far from getting a low-angled touring setup and have considered this question myself. I happily tune my alpine/AT gear, but that's only one pair of skis. I'm thinking of equipping the wife as well, and I'll be doing any necessary tuning or waxing on both our setups. How long does the process take? Am I right to assume that this is an every time out activity (even without changing conditions)?

Tuning -- same as with any other ski, faster if you don't glide wax. Smooth and sharpen the edges. Iron in wax -- tradition says to glide wax the tips and tails, but remember that kick wax will not stick as well to glide-waxed base. I typically kick-wax my entire bases for lots of kick without much stick, so I've been using glide wax less frequently -- only for deep base cleanings, storage, or special circumstances. Otherwise, I'll iron in a few coats of green or polar wax (base binder is expensive but is another good option).

Waxing -- as noted above, I try to iron in a base layer of hard kick wax before a trip, especially if it's a multiday. Even with this trick, I still need to apply wax in the field. Figure out what wax you need based on temps and snow characteristics. I'll often apply two kick waxes, usually soft over hard, for extra and longer-lasting grip. Crayon on as thin a layer of the right kick wax as possible, then cork it in. The cork is used to spread the wax evenly and to heat it slightly -- think of it like an iron. Wax selection, waxing and corking takes less than 5 minutes per pair, usually substantially less.

[RR]

...I'll be doing any necessary tuning or waxing on both our setups. How long does the process take? Am I right to assume that this is an every time out activity (even without changing conditions)?

There is waxing for/during the day and there is an annual prep. Investment of an evenings prep pays off in time saved when you wax for the day or for conditions.

The payoff is better for metal edged touring gear but even without edges this prep should last the entire season. We will not get into Klister at this point...however, once you get systematic use of Klister down you will laugh at waxless slowpokes.

Having a work bench and ski clamps helps. First tune the edges if applicable then carefully clean the bases as the can/bottle of Wax remover indicates.

Let the skis dry while you wash your hands and snack and quench thirst.

Melt the coldest glide wax available onto the entire base. (There are some tricks for later, but we will skip that) Then iron it in tip to tail same as with your big boards and, while the skis are still warm go back to the tip and repeat the ironing. An additional ironing will be okay only if you can touch the edges without them being more than just warm. I have been known to 4x on this process.

Then scrape right to the base and brush vigorously. Reheat the iron and cook'em again.

Let the skis cool to room temp while you wash your hands and snack and quench thirst.

When they are cool, cork the entire base to a mirror polish. Circular strokes are best, starting at the tips and working to the tail. Again there are tricks to the pattern but not this time.

Now hot wax Polar (-22F to +5F) kick wax into the largest kick-zone you will ever use. Do not include the glide zones...just the kick zone please! Again there are tricks here too, but that's for another year.

Let the skis get cool again while you wash your hands and snack and quench thirst.

Once the skis are cool check for eveness, scrape to even the surface if needed and cork the bejezus out of the Polar wax. Pay special attention to the areas where the polar feathers into the glide wax....nice smooth transition!

You are now ready for a season of very casual waxing for the day or conditions. A good metal&plastic scraper and a cork will be all you need to make changes for conditions after that. No need to change anything for a quarter mile of junky conditions...just adjust technique and you will do no worse than the waxless crowd.

When you go out you will want a small kit:
Swix plate style scraper (half plastic/half metal);
one cork (kickers get the big surfaces, glider gets the rest);
one small stone for edge touchups;
some fiberlene (or cloth) to clean the scraper;
small ziplock for the cleanings and other trash;
tougher ziplock to hold the three or four waxes;
small dedicated kit bag to hold the above

Some seasons I would get 45 days and not need to refresh the bases for the next season*...honest this really works and will have you waxing up quickly even in the parking area or at breaks on the trail.

* That's including some custom blending of materials into the waxes that would make this a freaking book!

[RR]

el-bagr knows his stuff, but I guess we will have something to debate over beers :D

the key is polishing...I have been known to cork my glidewax several times a season! Fast is so easy that way, turning is easier too.

[skicdave]

Rep for all the tips! I've been getting lazy with our XC skis. Definately due to clean em off and redo instead of 'recaking'.

I'll finally be on my AT gear next week and know I need to improve my waxing technic. Very helpful guys!

[ATP]

Nice detailed reply, Rob. That goes well beyond even Pinnah Dave's site. Thanks. You must spread some rep, yadayada...

[RR]

Nice detailed reply, Rob. That goes well beyond even Pinnah Dave's site. Thanks. You must spread some rep, yadayada...Pinnah is still one of my heros...a go to guy for all of the above and much more.

[Natedogg]

widsom teeth were yanked this A.M. Man is that a wierd feeling when they put you under :eek:.

Not to sound like the typical "well if you think thats bad...", but try being awake and watching a dentist come at you with a set of purdy darn big pliers. The worst part is feeling like the dentist is trying to push you through the chair to get the needed leverage. :eek: I loved it so much I did it twice. :doh:

[Justin]

Not to sound like the typical "well if you think thats bad...", but try being awake and watching a dentist come at you with a set of purdy darn big pliers. The worst part is feeling like the dentist is trying to push you through the chair to get the needed leverage. :eek: I loved it so much I did it twice. :doh:


May I ask why? I don't remember a freaking thing... :beer:

[zinguy]

" you can set up for the days conditions in a jiffy...even out on a trip."
I waxed for decades and took great pride in movin' on while waxles slid back. Variable backcountry conditions finally convinced me to try waxless Karhus. The time I used to spend tinkering to get the wax right is used for skiing now and when things are really funky, ie sun, shade, wet, dry all within a quarter mile I am really glad I made the switch. My Black Diamond skins go on/off quickly. All that said, if you love to tinker and you have friends who won't mind waiting while you futz around, when wax is right, it is the best.

[RR]

....if you love to tinker and you have friends who won't mind waiting while you futz around, when wax is right, it is the best.I'm old and fat and I wait for folks on waxless on every trip. Wax rules.

If you are tired of those old Bonna's or other lignostone edge skis just say the word and they can have a new home.

[el-bagr]

On the subject of all this dentistry, my father recently had a root canal and another tooth pulled. During the procedure -- once the tooth was partially opened -- the power went out. My father watched in awe as the dentist brought out hand tools (tools that were remarkably similar to what he had in the garage) and spent 90 minutes finishing the procedure without electricity.

On waxing, don't wait for RR and me. We'll pass you soon.

[Natedogg]

May I ask why? I don't remember a freaking thing... :beer:

At the time I was in grad school, and I was under the impression that a local anesthetic was cheaper than being put out. Whether that was true or not, I cant remember... (basically cuz Im a dumb, cheap bum)

Oh yeah, and I had to drive from Bangor back to Borono and didnt have anyone to pick me up.

BTW, your pix (website) are sweet. Nice work.

[Justin]

Dentistry: Wow Natedog, that must have been some experience! I couldn't have mad it from South Portland 2 Portland without a driver!

website: Thanks, it's a work in progress...

Wax: I'm going wax (yay) I was in EMS the other day and all they had was waxless...

[RR]

Yeah, waxless is an easy sell. No "vision" required, no thinking required either.

Ya wanna Ferrari, ya gotta spend some time fiddlin...or you could get a Chevvy and let it go at that.

Frikken minivans!

[Justin]

Frikken minivans!


http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Flats/5544/minivan.jpg

[RR]

http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Flats/5544/minivan.jpginstant wheelie!

[PWDR8S]

I'm old and fat and I wait for folks on waxless on every trip. Wax rules.
......
:D You're truly waxing poetic! :D

[PWDR8S]

Ski and Snowboard Waxing

Wax on, wax off by Rocky Thompson



Some people believe waxing your skis or snowboard only makes you go faster, but it also greatly extends the life of your ride and allows you to turn easier and with more control. A well-waxed ride will also earn a lot more at the swap when you need to upgrade to next years hottest hotness. If you don’t wax your ride yourself, then you’re either wondering why your black ski bases are gray and fuzzy or you’re shelling out cash to ski shops that you could otherwise be spending at those expensive resort bars. Either way, waxing your alpine skis or snowboard is incredibly easy. There are a few pitfalls, things like burning your bases off or inhaling melted-wax smoke for several hours, but they’re easily avoided.

Here are some step-by-step instructions with photos. The tips come from our employees who tune their own gear. The product links will take you to the gear you need. If you’re starting from scratch you might consider a waxing kit to get going.
Swix Snowboard Wax Kit - Small (http://www.backcountry.com/store/SWI0122/Swix-Snowboard-Wax-Kit-Small.html)
Swix Snowboard Wax Kit (http://www.backcountry.com/store/SWI0111/Swix-Snowboard-Wax-Kit.html)
Swix Alpine Wax Kit - Large (http://www.backcountry.com/store/SWI0110/Swix-Alpine-Wax-Kit-Large.html)


http://www.backcountry.com/images/newsletter/784.jpg
Clamped down and ready for action
1. Clean them, or not.
If the bases are dirty, clean them using a specific agent that strips wax without harming or drying out the base. If you have cheap skis or you’re extraordinarily bold, you might use citrus degreaser from the hardware store, but if it melts the base off your skis, don’t call us to complain. We recommend using Swix Base Cleaner.
Swix Base Cleaner Set (http://www.backcountry.com/store/SWI0006/Swix-Base-Cleaner-Set.html)

"Make sure your base is warmed to room temperature before applying the wax." Nick Clark, Buyer.

Nick’s right on this one. If you just took your skis off the roof rack after riding all day, the bases will be cold and none of the wax will stick.


http://www.backcountry.com/images/newsletter/785.jpg
Start dripping the wax
2. Drip wax onto the base.
Heat the wax with an iron until it melts and drips onto the base. Just go light on the drips, if there isn’t enough when you iron it in you can add more later. Use the same heat setting to drip wax onto the base that you’ll use for ironing the wax. If the wax ever starts smoking, turn down the heat.


http://www.backcountry.com/images/newsletter/786.jpg
About this much
“Select waxes with wide temperature ranges. Spend more time skiing, less time waxing,” Joan Guetschow, QA Usability Manager and former Olympic skier.

These waxes are cheap and work well, plus they have wide temperature ranges so Joan will be happy.
Swix CH Glide Wax (http://www.backcountry.com/store/SWI0034/Swix-CH-Glide-Wax.html)
Toko System 3 Glide Wax (http://www.backcountry.com/store/TOK0040/Toko-System-3-Glide-Wax.html)


http://www.backcountry.com/images/newsletter/787.jpg
Get a nice even coat
3. Iron in the wax, then wait.
If you’re using a Swix or Toko waxing iron, use the heat setting recommend on the wax you’ve chosen. If you’re using an iron you found at the thrift store, set it very low, usually around 1 or 2 out of 10. If the wax smokes, the iron is too hot.

“People debate whether the iron should have holes in the base or not. Ideally it shouldn’t, however waxing your board with a waffle iron is better than not waxing it at all; just be careful that the base of the iron is clean and that you don’t have it so hot that you’ve got burning and smoking wax.” Peter Barrett, Buyer.
Swix T73 Waxing Iron (http://www.backcountry.com/store/SWI0092/Swix-T73-Waxing-Iron.html)

Smooth the wax over the base using the iron. Go slowly enough to allow the wax to absorb but keep the iron moving. If your phone rings or you need to mix another Mai Tai, don’t leave the iron sitting on your board. Keep in mind that your bases are P-Tex and your iron is hot metal. You can add more wax by dripping wherever it’s needed. Iron until you see about one inch of clear wax behind the iron, but remember never to leave the iron in one place on your base for too long—just keep it moving. When you’re done ironing, turn off your iron and wait for the bases to get back to room temperature.


http://www.backcountry.com/images/newsletter/788.jpg
Scrape till she's got nothing left
4. Scrape the wax.
Hold the scraper at about a 45 degree angle and scrape from tip to tail. It’s okay to scrape back and forth a little to get wax out of difficult spots like the shovel. Always use a plastic scraper; metal ones will damage your base.
Toko Plexi Blade (http://www.backcountry.com/store/TOK0016/Toko-Plexi-Blade.html)

Using vises makes scraping and tuning your skis easier since you don’t have to pay a neighborhood boy to hold them for you.
Swix Alpine Ski Vise Wide (http://www.backcountry.com/store/SWI0094/Swix-Alpine-Ski-Vise-Wide.html)
Swix Snowboard Vise (http://www.backcountry.com/store/SWI0095/Swix-Snowboard-Vise.html)
Swix Caploc Combi Vise (http://www.backcountry.com/store/SWI0047/Swix-Caploc-Combi-Vise.html)

“Be sure that your scraper is free from burrs and nicks before you scrape the wax off your skis or board. If those things exist, run the scraper lengthwise down a file and it will even the edge out. Good as new.” Kendall Card, Community Manager.
Swix 40mm Plexi Sharpener (http://www.backcountry.com/store/SWI0112/Swix-40mm-Plexi-Sharpener.html)

If you’re a dirtbag, there will be a temptation to reuse the wax that you’ve scraped. Fight this temptation. The melted wax pulls the dirt out of your skis bases, so just throw it away.


http://www.backcountry.com/images/newsletter/789.jpg
Mr. Miyagi says: "Brush the ski."
5. Buff with a structure brush.
Take a course brush and go only from tip to tail. This puts grooves in the base that break up suction and allow you to go faster and turn easier.
Swix White Nylon Coarse Brush (http://www.backcountry.com/store/SWI0020/Swix-White-Nylon-Coarse-Brush.html)

“The best addition to my waxing kit was a base structure brush. Sounds all high tech, but it really just gets the excess wax out off the nooks and crannies of your base. End result you go faster.” Dustin Roberson, Vice President of Marketing.

Though we’ve included links to loads of product, all you really need to get started is some wax, a scraper, and a thrift shop iron. Remember, if it starts smoking turn down your iron and quit inhaling.

[RR]

Trying to get full absorbtion on a single heating is like trying to enjoy a pizza by chewing only once....it just won't do!

Otherwise a great place to start.