How Big Are Your Skins? Does Size Count?

[skicdave]

Got ur attention huh?

What do most of you use? A full skin custom cut to cover the whole base of your ski or just a straight skin which covers 'most' of the ski? Or might you have more than one pair depending on the steepness of your accent? I'd think having a narrow skin might be usefull going up a mild slope where you can still have a bit of glide, less drag.

Whats the scoop?

Tnx

[Freebird]

The dood (name unmentioned) at the place (again, unmentioned) in Manchester convinced me that straight skins are the way to go. "cutting skins is such a pain, and it never comes out right!" is what is said. Well, I went that way and I must say, they glide phenomenally when compared to other people's....

Here's the problem. If you're traversing, plan on sliding, and on steep snow or when it's hard pack that's no good. I was skiing up gully 3 last spring (with Jay Philbrick from the avy course no less) and I couldn't make it past the last bend before it goes straight up to the ridge. I kept slipping back and fearing that I'd get off balance and start sliding myself, I took the skis and skins off and booted up. Jay meanwhile skinned all the way up the gully, zig zagging of course. I had the same problem when zig zagging up the slide on N tripyramid with RR and Rider Steve last March.


What happens when you're traversing (except for pow) is that only the outside half inch or inch of your base is in contact with the snow, so basically you might as well only have kicked skins on. When you can keep the ski flat against the snow, no problem. So if you go with straight skins, you'll only be able to go up as far as going straight up will allow, maybe a little more by traversing. After that, it's the boot latter for you.

No on the other hand, if you cut the skins, and carpet your base so that the edge and only the edge is showing, you will get MUCH better traction especially for those traverses. I can't say how much more it'll slow you down, but let's face is we really don't glide too well with skins anyway, so what's a loss of what was only a little to begin with? As far as cutting them- I'd done a few for a few people at EMS, and let's just say it isn't very hard, they give you all the tools, and it doesn't take that much longer.

SO, my vote is to size your skins to your shovel (or slightly less, ie: 110mm skins for a 113 shovel...), not your waste, and take the extra time to fit the skins. Besides, it'll get you away from the TV and computer for a night!

[awf170]

skin cutting vid, if you decide to cut the skins to fit your skis. It is not as easy as he makes it look, but it is pretty easy.
http://www.bdel.com/gear/glidelite_sts.php
just click tech video.

[yuckster]

Cutting skins was a pain in the ass. And I ended up mounting the tip loop off center without realizing it.

I have full size skins, and I think my plan has always been to possibly get a pair of kicker skins but not anything in between.

[PWDR8S]

My skin is about as big as my body.... yes, size does count. Nothing attractive about excess baggy skin hanging about. http://www.timefortuckerman.com/forums/images/smilies/tongue.gif


I think RR touched upon this a little while back..... I think the discussion was to get 'full' skins and then if you're on rolling terrain do the wax thing. Perhaps kicker skins too.

Mine are full coverage with the metal edges exposed. Great traction! I tried narrow skins and had more hassle getting uphill than it was worth. Slip slidin' away I think was the tune of that day.

[skicdave]

Excellent help! I'll probably opt for full skins and pick up kicker skins for some of the easier trails I'll be navigating. That video at leasat make it 'look' easy to trim em yourself.

My wallet is going to be looking purty empty!

[ATP]

Good call. It is super easy. Don't know how you cut off that tip loop, yuckster. I try to keep the beer count down when doing irreversible work.

Trim to 1-2 mm inside the edge (you'll need good edge for sidehills). I size to the tail, since the vast majority of your weight is held there (little if any weight site on the fat part of the tips). If you go with tail width minus 6 mm, you'll do great (unless you've got a pin tail, in which case, say, 10-12mm less than the tip would be fine).

[el-bagr]

Skins are easy to trim wall-to-wall. If you buy BDs, follow the instructions -- it's even easier than mounting. Leave two edge-widths on each side -- i.e. on each side of the skin, there's the edge, an equal width of base, then the skin. Works great for me.

I have a pair of kicker skins I use occasionally on skinny skis, but I prefer wax. I also have straight skins I use on nearly straight skis when pure speed, not max grip, is required (e.g. long bc tours where distance, not vert, is priority).

Remember you don't need skins as wide as your tips -- if you get skins that wide, you will have lots of waste but only incrementally more grip than with skins 1cm or so narrower. Follow the contours of the ski once you get a handspan or so down from the tip, but don't sweat the tip itself.

[Justin]

Yep, I've got wall 2 wall carpets too. Depending on how wide your skis are, wall wall can make a pretty decent defference. ATP's suggestion on sizing your tail is a good one, don fret about getting skins that match.

As for trim difficulty, the hardest part is keeping the freaking things from sticking to themselves -- boy are they sticky at first! The razor blade that comes with the skins has always worked great.

BTW, when you trim your skins, make sure there isn't any crap on your bases (that goes for fresh wax as well -- that's a quick way to de-stick-ify the glue.

Oh, last year I switched from the regular (purple) black diamond skins to glidelites (the cows ;) ) They are slightly lighter slide slightly better. I had a couple instances with malfunctioning frozen skins (with the regular Ascensions). I haven't had that problem YET with the glidelites.

[steep'n'deep]

I used the "old skool" method of sizing skins last year and have yet to notice any major problems. By that, what I mean is I bought the next size up from the narrowest part of my ski and then trimmed 'em down.

My skis are 107-73-97, so I bought 80mm skins. If I had gone wall-to-wall I would've got 110mm and spent an xtra 17 bucks. The difference at the widest point is only 27mm total (that's 13.5mm per side) which seems like a pretty negligable amount up at the shovel where there is little skier weight. With this method the "wax pocket" area of the ski is amply covered, which is where the majority of your weight will be anyway. The only major hassle was that I had to mail my tip loops back to BD for the next size up, because the ones that came with the skins were too narrow to fit on the blunt tips of the skis.

It seems like if you can save a few bucks for beers and end up having to do less trimming, it's a win-win situation.

[RR]

Here's my rationale for wall-to-wall skins:
Any exposed sliding surface will. That is all.

[Skilasnow]

Ditto RR.

I don't know who says cutting skins is a pain but they must have been high on something I don't do. I thought it was super easy. On RRs birthday last year Rainman showed up at Wildcat with new skis and still in the box skins. I geared up, went to the mens room and grabbed a snck at the cafeteria and he was ready to go, skins cut to size, easy.

[BladeGirl]

I didn't have a problem last season with strait skins on my teles, but when I tricked out a pair of blades earlier this season to go AT I went for wall-to-wall coverage (minus the edges) figuring the surface area os so much less I could use all the traction I could get. I thought cutting them was pretty easy. They came with a little plastic tool with a metal blade and it zipped right through.

I'm sure you'll have fun, whichever way you decide to go!

-BG

[H-man]

Got ur attention huh?

What do most of you use? A full skin custom cut to cover the whole base of your ski or just a straight skin which covers 'most' of the ski? Or might you have more than one pair depending on the steepness of your accent? I'd think having a narrow skin might be usefull going up a mild slope where you can still have a bit of glide, less drag.

Whats the scoop?

Tnx
Buy skin to your shovel size, trim to expose only the edges and wax the crap out of those skins. Black Diamond makes a good wax, can't think of the name right now. Also I really like the skin keeper thinga majigies that you can buy from Black Diamond to save the glue and to ease pulling them apart.

No new info from me, but follow this and soon you will be doing this:
http://www.biglines.com/photos/normal/biglines_49842.jpg

Have Fun!

[Justin]

Also I really like the skin keeper thinga majigies that you can buy from Black Diamond to save the glue and to ease pulling them apart.



Have Fun!


My last pair came with them... I can't recall what they are called either.

[skicdave]

My last pair came with them... I can't recall what they are called either.

I have heard them called 'Cheat Sheets'. The skins I rented used them and it make it pretty easy to pull the skins off. I imagine this is not the case without something between them.

[PWDR8S]

I use cheat sheets..... pliable plastic sheets that are a little wider and as long as the skin. Makes for keeing the sticky .... well sticky longer and it's a snap peeling them off the skis and rolling 'em up!