Demo Day Fallout / Ski Review - Dynastar 8000 vs. Volkl AC-4

[skibumnh]

I went up to sunday river on saturday to log my first turns of the season and demo some new skis. Conditions were decent for this time of year - think typical new england - boilerplate base with pushed around, bumped out mm pp. Not ideal for demoing skis, seeing that with the crowds and trail conditions combined there was little to no opportunity to point anything straight for very long to get some gs turns in, but I made do.

Let me preface this with a brief description of my build and skiing style - Im 5'10" and an athletic 175 lbs. An expert with 20 years alpine experience. I have a fairly aggressive, hard charging skiing style. I have a reputation among friends of being a bit of a bruiser on the slopes with a fondness for turning infrequently when the terrain invites it. This isnt to say im a wreckless freight train of a skier, I feel like Im pretty well rounded and I have no problem skiing with finesse when the conditions require it. If you read those magazine reviews I tend to lean towards skis that favor the power side of the power to finesse ratio.

My current resort/utility setup is a 175 Dynastar Intuitiv 74. I love the versatility of this ski and I dont mind that Im able to muscle it around and really make it flex when I want to. Its great on piste everywhere and off piste in snow < 12" deep. Any more and the lack of float begins to hamper its performance.

Dynastar Legend 8000 - 178cm and 172cm

I am partial to dynastar having skiied a pair for the last 2 seasons, so I already knew what to expect overall. I wasnt sure what length I would be more comfortable on so I tried the 178 first and I ended up spending about 2 hours on them. I noticed right away how much stiffer these are than my old 74's, much more damp through the crud, a much more stable platform overall. As for the extra width (79mm underfoot), it was barely noticable. The kick tail lets them slip for short fast turns so pay no attention to the big moutain radii numbers next to this ski's sidecut dimensions. It can do it all. I think it is a great ski for the east coast. Good edge grip, great in the bumps, damp at speed in the choppy stuff, and at nearly 80mm I think theyll be great in the fresh. I went back to the demo tent and switched up to the 172's and it was perfect for me. I didnt observe any loss of stability at speed the sorter length, I only had more fun in the bumps. I think for my size on the east cost, 172 is the perfect length. If I called Jackson WY my home, I would take the 178's. The 8000's were fairly light too and they dont (thank god) have an integrated binding system, so you can mount your freerides on these skis and have a great resort/touring ski.

Volkl AC-4 170cm

I grabbed the 170 because that was all they had at the tent at the time (and this was what my local shop was trying to sell me from their stock), but the rep looked at me and said Id be back for the 177's. First thing I observed on these skis was 'wow are they grippy.' This was my first experience on a pair of Volkls and probably the most sidecut of any ski Id ever ridden and crusing at slow speeds on a green to another lift these things hooked up when I wasnt paying attention and almost sent me into the woods. I had a thread going last month about these skis because I want to love them and I want to buy them but my biggest concern was that they would hook up too easy and get me in trouble. This concern was now realized. In all fairness to the AC4, im used to being on the Dynastars which require more skier input to achieve the same quickness of turn so when I lazily tipped the volkl on edge I just wasnt ready for what came next. After getting used to this I headed up to my test bump run and grinned ear to ear the whole way down as these fat (82mm) ass carving skis just shredded everything in sight. They are as light and quick edge to edge as a ski at least 10mm narrower. At the same time the girth was confidence inspiring so I pointed them straight down the bump run and arced some gs turns to simulate crud like conditions. They arent as damp at 170 as their width would imply, so I ended up spending more time in the air than on the snow while doing this but if thats youre style you may like these skis at this length. They reminded me a lot of 175cm pocket rockets at this length - nimble, light, stable at speed on groomed stuff, but get tossed around in the crud. The rep told me they would ski much more stable at a 177 for me but they still didnt have them back in the booth (a testament to how much fun they are?) so I had to quit without trying them.


Im still undecided between the two. Im used to the dynastar feel, its a more traditional ski to me that really favors my style of skiing and Im sure Id be totally content with it, but the AC-4 is fun to ski and might offer better float off piste. I read a review on these in one the mags which said it was "a slalom ski for the trees" and after skiing it, I can easily see how this would be true. I'll update this after I get a few laps on the 177 AC-4. If value is a factor, dynastar wins again hands down since Ive seen them going for $350 less than the volkl's w/bindings. The bottom line is all you old coots crying that these wide bodied boards are west coast only need to get out there and give them a try, fat is the future - embrace it.

[RR]

Great review. Hang on for a further demo, those 177 Voks could be pretty interesting. Being quick and longer you would get extra length based float and maybe feel happy in the brush too.

Maybe a nod in the directon of the 8800s. Me brother in-law ski's 'em at the Bush and anywhere else on the planet. Fat is the future all right. My Bows are 82 underfoot, very similar to those 8000s.

[Phishing]

x post

Figured I would be optimistic and try some wider planks hoping we have a decent year.

Volkl AC4 Unlimited 177- Nice, held edge on ice, and was good through man made on edges of trails. Little stiff in the bumps

Head Monster 88 175- Chatter like a SOB when really trying to lay it over. Killer in the soft snow, better in bumps than volkl.

Rossi B3 176- Ski felt dead at slow speed, but was good at GS type turns. OK in bumps.

Dynastar 8K 178- Held edge almost as good as volkl. Good at GS type turns. Good in bumps. Not really in the same class as the others above, but they did not had the 8800.

For testing purposes I skied every ski on Monday Morning (straight off the back of Barker) and one other random run on Barker.

For soft snow I would chose the Head. An all around every day maybe the Dynastar or the Volkl if I didn't have anything bigger than 80 in the quiver. The Rossi was the only one I didn't like.

Current Quiver-Guess I also like Dynastars

188 Dynastar Bigs w/freerides
173 Volkl Explosive
181 Rossi Bode/carver

:unhappyhiker:

[riverc0il]

when i demoed the volkl 724 pro (similar to the ac4, i think they made some changes) and 8000 last year, my impression was the volkl would be better for folks who preferred groomers and like to go on to natural snow every now and then whereas the 8000s were for folks who only skied groomers to get to the natural snow. i hooked a pair of freerides up to the 8000s and they ripped. ripped a ski apart as well! i think it was due to a DIN too high or nailing a rock. in either case, the binding didn't release me and split the ski. regardless, i have another pair i'm throwing a freeride on because it is a rocking setup. for pow days, the 8800 is pretty sweet as well but nothing i'd want on a groomer and slower in the bumps of course.

[Skilasnow]

Both Rick and Farmer Bob, of Wolf Creek fame, rode the Dynastar Legend (the precurser to the 8000?) with freerides, I saw a bunch of others out in the trees and hiking around all over CO with the exact same setup. Almost bought some myself ... almost bought a lot of things this year ... but those were high on my left

[skibumnh]

Both Rick and Farmer Bob, of Wolf Creek fame, rode the Dynastar Legend (the precurser to the 8000?) with freerides, I saw a bunch of others out in the trees and hiking around all over CO with the exact same setup. Almost bought some myself ... almost bought a lot of things this year ... but those were high on my left

The ski is actually the Legend 8000, there is also a Legend 8800 and a Legend Pro.

[sbbeckett]

I assume you guys are talking about the Black Diamond Fritchi freeride binding? Thing is, I just got a brand new pair of last year's 8000's but I'm trying to choose what binding to put on them. I've been out of the game for about eight years because of a bad ACL so I'm a little behind the curve on what equipment is what.

Even if I plan to do 90% of my skiing on-piste, is that a better choice for a binding than say the Look binding that Dynastar recommends?

[Rainman]

I assume you guys are talking about the Black Diamond Fritchi freeride binding? Thing is, I just got a brand new pair of last year's 8000's but I'm trying to choose what binding to put on them. I've been out of the game for about eight years because of a bad ACL so I'm a little behind the curve on what equipment is what.

Even if I plan to do 90% of my skiing on-piste, is that a better choice for a binding than say the Look binding that Dynastar recommends?

The high end look binding is the best by far especially if you have bad knees as far as a downhill bindings go. The big spring gives a much softer release for high speed ejections. The freeride is as good as any downhill binding (accept maybe the look) but also gives you a tour mode. They are almost as indestructible as a high end downhill binding although I did manage to break mine last season. Fritchi fixed them for free no questions asked without a receipt so if you plan on touring you won’t loose anything by going with the Fritchi but if you are going to JUST resort ski the highest end look is great. I’ve heard bad things about there cheaper lower end bindings but that can be said about almost any binding manufacturer if you’re an aggressive skier you need more than just a high din setting.

PS thankx for the reveiw of the AC4. Looking to try that out myself and I'm also starting to look at teh 8k's with all the great reviews I've been reading even though I'm a Volkl and Atomic guy. :D

[RR]

.....been out of the game for about eight years because of a bad ACL so I'm a little behind the curve on what equipment is what.

Even if I plan to do 90% of my skiing on-piste, is that a better choice for a binding than say the Look binding that Dynastar recommends?The Alpine only binders do have a reputation for safer releases, but using DIN above 10 on a repaired ACL might be questionable. I'm running almost 10 on my good knee and an even 9 for my 6 surgeried knee with my Fritchi Freerides. Once I settled on those settings all of my releases have been smooth and right where they should have been.

In this case, light makes right I think. Less weight below the knee = safer for the knee imo.

EDIT:
Boots: Consider a boot with a real walk mode switch...I've managed to relieve a lot of pressure on a tired knee by skiing in walk mode. It started as an accident (senior moment) that just kept happening. Then of course there is the ease for your bones when walking.

[Phishing]

I assume you guys are talking about the Black Diamond Fritchi freeride binding? Thing is, I just got a brand new pair of last year's 8000's but I'm trying to choose what binding to put on them. I've been out of the game for about eight years because of a bad ACL so I'm a little behind the curve on what equipment is what.

Even if I plan to do 90% of my skiing on-piste, is that a better choice for a binding than say the Look binding that Dynastar recommends?

This is just a personal statement, but I don't like how the freeride has 0 ramp angle. This seems to throw me into the back seat. If you are using AT boots this doesn't matter b/c they have a rockered sole and slight lift under the heel. You can always shim it while mounting, or mount it w/o the toe riser, but that's a PITA and my detract from structural integrity. Also heard the metal bar may hinder ski flex, but never had that one validated.

That being said, unless you REALLY plan to tour (add skin$) I would go with alpine binders.

[sbbeckett]

EDIT:
Boots: Consider a boot with a real walk mode switch...I've managed to relieve a lot of pressure on a tired knee by skiing in walk mode. It started as an accident (senior moment) that just kept happening. Then of course there is the ease for your bones when walking.[/QUOTE]

I have to stick with my regular alpine boots for now. My bank account is already creaking after buying the skis. Two more questions though:

1) The freeride is the lighter of the two bindings we're discussing here, right?

2) Would the lack of a tour mode hinder me much in Tux? That's the only place off-piste I'll be likely to hit on a semi-regular basis and it's been so long since I've been up there in the winter that I can barely remember what's minimum equipment.

Thanks again, guys. Quick feedback as always.

[RR]

Maybe 6oz lighter, at the most. If Tux is it for the BC, go with the Looks for the reasons Rainman mentioned.

About the boots, if you can adjust the angle of the forward lean, then you can always loosen strap and buckles to walk a little. Watch out for Race lean and, depending on your knees, the opposite might be problematic. It might be worth a lot to get with an Orthopedist to work out the best amount of forward lean.

[sbbeckett]

Watch out for Race lean and, depending on your knees, the opposite might be problematic. It might be worth a lot to get with an Orthopedist to work out the best amount of forward lean.

My boots are the Technica race boots from '96 or so, but they're practically brand new because I went out of commission soon after I got them. Have boots changed all that much since then? Possibly a very naive question.

[Skilasnow]

My boots are the Technica race boots from '96 or so, but they're practically brand new because I went out of commission soon after I got them. Have boots changed all that much since then? Possibly a very naive question.
Boots have certainly changed but no where near as much as the skis have changed. i concur with the Look comments above, i have them on my dynastar ATVs and I love them, but now that i am going into the BC more I have switched to the Fritchis

[ATP]

This is just a personal statement, but I don't like how the freeride has 0 ramp angle. This seems to throw me into the back seat. If you are using AT boots this doesn't matter b/c they have a rockered sole and slight lift under the heel. You can always shim it while mounting, or mount it w/o the toe riser, but that's a PITA and my detract from structural integrity. Also heard the metal bar may hinder ski flex, but never had that one validated.

That being said, unless you REALLY plan to tour (add skin$) I would go with alpine binders.

First off, I agree with this assessment & BTW, phish, I've got serious quiver envy. As to the particulars:

IMO, removing the toe riser is far simpler and more reliable than shimming the heel, where you'd have to shim both the lockdown mechanism and the feet on the center bar. This does affect the alignment of the bar somewhat and thus could cause the feet of the heel-end of the bar to sit above the ski more than they ordinarily do. (For some reason, the feet on the Freeride (as opposed to the Diamir) never seem to sit fully flush.) I don't think this is much of a problem when the binding is weighted, however, so it seems a good way to give yourself a ~1% (3.2 mm) ramp. The toe piece has zero structural function, and since the binding screws will be further into the ski (as opposed to less, in the case of heel shimming).

Turns out the metal bar does not interfere with ski flex. This is b/c it's not attached directly to the ski. It's merely held down by the heel unit and is free to slide longitudinally when the ski flexes severely. (Whether this is related to the occasional spontaneous freeheel moments that occur, I don't know. In may case, it's as likely due to general flailage.)

[Phishing]

First off, I agree with this assessment & BTW, phish, I've got serious quiver envy. As to the particulars:

IMO, removing the toe riser is far simpler and more reliable than shimming the heel, where you'd have to shim both the lockdown mechanism and the feet on the center bar. This does affect the alignment of the bar somewhat and thus could cause the feet of the heel-end of the bar to sit above the ski more than they ordinarily do. (For some reason, the feet on the Freeride (as opposed to the Diamir) never seem to sit fully flush.) I don't think this is much of a problem when the binding is weighted, however, so it seems a good way to give yourself a ~1% (3.2 mm) ramp. The toe piece has zero structural function, and since the binding screws will be further into the ski (as opposed to less, in the case of heel shimming).



Cool, I thought that would work. As of the whole ski flex thing I was comparing my 188 Bigs to a friend's 178s with alpine binders. Hand flexing them, they (178) seem a lot stiffer. Could be a ski specific thing, I know the shovels tend to be soft.

[Rainman]

(Whether this is related to the occasional spontaneous freeheel moments that occur, I don't know. In may case, it's as likely due to general flailage.)

This makes sense. Most of my free heel moments have happened in the bumps while engaging the edges which would cause severe flex of the ski. :eek:

[skibumnh]

Is there even one thread on the entire forum that ends on the same topic that it started with? Is every member on this board (myself included) a habitual thread jacker?

I am now jacking my own thread.