Goin to Tucks... What to bring....

[Cdog]

A buddy and I are thinking about taking a trip up to Tuckerman’s at the end of April. I checked out the previous posts, but was hoping for a little more info. I read that the Forest Service does some avalanche control there. Do most bring avalanche gear (probe, shovel, beacon) or are the avie control measures sufficient? Are crampons a good idea at the end of April? Is it fairly easy to find the trails that take you to the top of the Ravine? What kind of weather can we expect by the end of April? I know it varies a lot, but are we still talking negative temps, or does it mellow out by then. Finally, anyone know how long it would take to drive there from Rutland, Vermont? Any other tips for a pair of first timers would be appreciated. Thanks, and this is a great site!

[kiki]

the best tips are what you find on the website. follow the trip of that group from top to bottom; really describes it well. weather and snow qty will vary and will determine the ammount of work and effort. stay at that inn that is advertised; the rates are good and you can use their pool and hottub after to soak. 2 hours to hojo- straight up a very rocky path; could be easier if hard pack w/snow. then another 30-45 to bottom of bowl to lunch rocks. relax; have a sandwich and a nip of courage; then head up the steep slopes for another 20-30 minutes. and its steep! but enjoy.

[M@]

Bring a camera. Otherwise no-one will believe your stories.

M@

[Nick]

Originally posted by msheppard:
Bring a camera. Otherwise no-one will believe your stories.

M@

VERY VERY TRUE!!!! people that havent been there wont believe how steep some of it is.

[VTrider]

Does anybody else share this experience:

Ya take ****loads of pics finally only to get them developed, but the pics just don't 'convey' the awe and steepness/reality of the situation?

-VTrider

[M@]

Some of the posters I've seen, the wide angle shots of the bowl, from the lunch rocks on the right, to the left gulley, do an "okay" job. But I've had the same expierence as you: 3 rolls of film that could have been shot at BOLTON.

I'd like to know how they take those shots that do an okay job. I think this year I'll try a couple "multiple exposure" deals where I shoot one centered on the lunch rocks, then one of the headwall, then the left gulley... and maybe put them all together after I've recovered from the wknd.

5/5/2001!!!! CINCO DE TUCKERMAN!!!!

M@

[skicdave]

Go up in April with camera in hand while there is good coverage over the lip of the headwall. Park yourself up near the mouth of left gulley (out of the way of bodies sliding by). Hopefully you have a decent camera zoom. Wait patiently for that fearless skier to take the plunge over the headwall and snap a shot real quick. You'll get some decent appreciation of the steepness of the headwall. Better yet a video camera can record the cheering crowd at lunch rock at the same time...

[mengo76]

M@, I did one of those "patchwork" pictures from the top of the bowl last year, but it pretty much sucked, I was disappointed by the software, and the weather wasnt too great, it had starte drizzling... Anyway, the pic is at
http://207.244.81.204/skiboard/panorama640trans.gif


---mengo.

[M@]

Hey Mengo:
Maybe zooming in would help. I've done a couple patchworks that came out okay before. I guess I'll try to find a scene "similar" in construciton as tuckerman and try it down here before going up there.

THanks for the link though.

M@

[nate]

Originally posted by VTrider:
Does anybody else share this experience:

Ya take ****loads of pics finally only to get them developed, but the pics just don't 'convey' the awe and steepness/reality of the situation?

-VTrider


you gotta move to the side as people climb by and take a shot straight across the hill. atleast once that really helps to show how steep it is. when there is someone climbing in the frame gives a better perspective. (photography in high school)

[VTrider]

Yeah, after thinking about it a bit...you guys are absolutely right on. It's all about perspective.

Thing is, pretty ironic actually - the time/place when most people take thier photos up at tucks is usually before/after a run/hike, while their eating/hanging out on the lunch rocks, etc.

I guess it's just that the last thing i'm thinking about is taking photos while ascending up a chute/gulley. I'm usually pre-occupied by thoughts of chunks of ice the size of my neighbors 'VOLVO' careening down at my face - gulp! Now come to think of it, that WOULD make a great picture, maybe the last picture I ever take, but it would be nice facing the last seconds of my life knowing that that picture probably would end up posted on this message board!

I think I'll have my camera readily accessible this Spring at tucks.....

-VTrider

[riverc0il]

regarding Photos and panoramic shots... i just downloaded some software that made stitching photos together to make great panoramic shots. it's very easy to use, IMO.

it's called Ulead Cool 360 and it's available for demo from http://www.ulead.com. full version only costs like $40 and i'm pretty sure i'm going to buy it.

i have no connection with the company, just seemed like this could help some of you with your pictures like it did for me.

here's some examples of pictures i merged within an hour or two of getting the program. all these pictures combined two pictures to form one panoramic one... but the program can handle as many as you want and go 360 degrees.

Mount Washington: http://hammer.prohosting.com/~theway/graphics/mwpan1.jpg http://hammer.prohosting.com/~theway/graphics/mwpan2.jpg http://hammer.prohosting.com/~theway/graphics/ravine.jpg

Near Mount Washington: http://hammer.prohosting.com/~theway/graphics/back.jpg http://hammer.prohosting.com/~theway/graphics/hotel.jpg http://hammer.prohosting.com/~theway/graphics/silver.jpg http://hammer.prohosting.com/~theway/graphics/falls.jpg

here's two from Pac Bell Park as well... these combined three pictures each. http://hammer.prohosting.com/~theway/graphics/stadium1.jpg http://hammer.prohosting.com/~theway/graphics/stadium2.jpg

i hope that helps some of you guys!

[garybarto]

Rutland to Pinkham Notch is going to run you at least 2.5 hours. It's a beautiful drive.

[twist]

wildbill

More 'n more lately I am seeing the bc (and ski areas) littered with these educated shovel toting moralists preaching the virtues of "being informed before you enter the bc" and I think it rarely occurs to them that: 1. The people with the most snowpack education are as much or more at risk of suffering a fatality due to an avalanche, and 2. If they themselves had not ever gone beyond ski area boundaries, they wouldn't have known the appeal that's since caused them to get the proper tools and education.

Now, for a quick bit of recent history: in the last tradgic avalanche on Mt Washington, the couple both had the correct tools and education, yet were swept away and one didn't come back. All the "tools" and "education" in the world is no replacement for experience and common sense.

Now, let me ask you something: The patrolman who you spoke with - might that have been the same one who was standing around at Hojo's last saturday morning alerting everbody of the avy danger present and evidencing all the obvious sluff activity present?? I had a quick talk with this guy and besides not knowing the difference between a sluff and an avalanche, he was quite unaware of the recent snowpack history on the mountain. I ski there on a weekly basis and other than a growing instability on the fan in Huntingtons (which cleared itself a few weeks back), the snowpack overall has been very stable.

If there is a worry of avalanche danger, there will be a ranger - not a volunteer patroller - standing out at Hojo's quietly letting people know of the situation. These rangers are the best avy forcasters on the east coast and quite knowledgeable about maritime snowpacks.

So, while I agree that it's always a good idea to bring along shovel/beacon/probe on any trip bc, please don't think these people are any less ingnorant than the idiots catching blind air off the headwall.

The real danger up there is that most people, including very good skiers, are putting themselves and others in jepordy by skiing at the edge of their abilities just to impress a few gawkers. That is why you see someone hurt every day - not because of avalanches.

[rachael]

twist

good info from your plentiful experience...
i'm actually taking an inexperienced group (including myself) on the tuckerman trail in a week...prolly won't do any skiing...how's the trail for hiking w/o crampons/poles? should we have a map?

[notjustanotherboarder]

Hi Twist; I thought I'd comment on your reply:

First, you are right about the couple. However, I watched the video of their rescue. Had they had proper training, they (a) would not have been traveling so close to each other, (b) they would not have been traveling in the fall line and (c) they would have observed, and yielded to, the person above them.
But second (derived from above), the proper education would have saved their lives. To suggest that it would not have is foolish.

Those that travel to TR or any other BC area should have the proper equipment, education and common sense. It is not enough to just listen to the rangers to tell when the danger is low, medium, considerable or high.

By the way, the difference at TR during April and beyond is that (1) there are so many people, and (2) the snow is settled. It’s almost not even BC anymore.

[twist]

njab

The couple I was refering to were hit last year in the GOS having lunch (i believe) in the crux of the main gully and I also heard they'd both completed level I avy training. Despite this there were multiple releases going off all over the GOS before their event and I doubt they'd even have been in there if they weren't mollified somewhat by their apparent knowledge. No, the courses given now-a-days are only a supplement to that all-more important aspect of common sense that people need in any possibly dangerous activity. Whatever the scope of your knowledge, the simple answer is "if there's enough doubt in your mind then just don't do it."

Although I happen to have taken the courses and carry the tools, we've managed to survive skiing Tucks and the bc since the '60's and plenty people managed to survive well before that just by using the tool between the ears. As msheppard mentioned, at this time of the year it's usually a fairly straight-forward non-technical climb and no, you don't really need a beacon or shovel unless there's been a major snow or wind event in the past few days.

If eventually you spend enough time getting further and further away from people, you'll know when it's time to get the tools and education - you won't need people to tell you.

I agree that Tucks is not really bc and rarely go in there anymore - however, there are plenty of places in the presidentials you can go on a sunny day in April or May that are devoid of anyone but yourselves.

rachael

The hike in is on low angle packed and obvious trails - crampons aren't necessary and actually not a good idea. Poles are nice to walk with for some but not needed. Maps not needed - just follow the masses.

[notjustanotherboarder]

Twist,

You and I are on the same page. BTW, the two that I was referring to were killed a couple of years ago.

[twist]

wildbill

I understand your concerns well and as I said, if people venture into the bc enough they'll figure it out for themselves. The mountains you're most familiar with are very different than Mt Washington in a lot of respects, not just the snowpack.

One of the growing problems around Tucks is that lately there's a lot of "knowledgeable" bc skiers mixing in with these "gapers" (as you put it). So now you have a conflict with these experienced people feeling they need to educate all these "clueless idiots" ... but ... most of these "idiots" are just up here for a nice day in the sun - not a lecture. Is it possible they'll get killed in an avalanche? Hell yes! It's also just as possible, or even more so, that they could get their skull caved in by some great skier lauching blind air off the headwall and "stomping" the landing right on that poor gapers head. I've seen it happen more than once.

I stopped going into Tucks years ago on spring weekends not only because of the circus-like atmosphere, but because of the sharp increase of people telling other people what to do. Between these knowledgable people and all the self-appointed environmental moralists, it's just become too overwhelming.

[Newbee]

I have to agree with you Twist. Just let people have a good time with out giving them a hard time. I am going for the first time without much knowledge or gear and the last thing I want is people giving me a lecture.