How steep?

[Mumster]

We are trying to prepare for a first run up TR. I'm assuming we won't go to the top of the ravine since we have limited experience with this type of skiing. How far do most people go their first trip up?

Also, does anyone know how steep it is at various points? It looks almost vertical from the top to the bottom of the area where the rocks layer across. Then less steep, going down into the bowl. Do most new ravine skiers hike up to or past the rocky area? What's realistic?

[M@]

Here's my history, how high I went

Trip 1: Hillmans
Trip 2: About half way to the lip
Trip 3: Base of Chute
Trip 4: Top of Chute
Trip 5: Up to lip, not over, and top of hillmans
Trip 6: Up and over the lip, whoo hoo! Waited too long, wasn't as bad as I thought.

Personally, it was always someone else kind of determining when I stopped... except the top of the chute time, when I was way higher than I probably should have been. Previously, I'd hike up with someone else and they'd decide it was high enough for them and we'd both stop.

M@

[skicdave]

Awk!! I had a long winded response skimumster... by as usual... Bill Gates type software failed me and dumped me out of IE just as I was finishing up.... I'll depart now but try again tommorrow :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[targheehucker]

its steep...

trip runs...
1) didnt even ski
2) right gully, left gully, oh shi$*)
3) RG, LG, headwall
4) RG, Lip, Chute
5) Summit snowfields, Lip, Chute
6) ???? See me sat

[loafnut]

its really steep but it all depends on your confidnece level and ability level. If you have been in hairy situations before then its not that big of a deal. I had only skiied the loaf before tucks and I found I was well prepared for the ravine.
trip runs
1) the lip twice, RG
2)sluice, center headwall

one of my friends did the icefall on his first trip to tucks and was comfortable with it.

judging from the conditions of my last trip (monday) id say you should do right gully, mb left gully and probably start with a run from half way up the bowl, below the lip and headwall and below the crevasses.

if i remember correctly the goodman book states that the ravine varies from 40-55+ degrees of steepness which is well above the hardest trail at most mountains.

[Skilasnow]

The key thing to remember is that you can hike up to the steepness that you can handle. There does come a point where you have to commit to greater steepness due to the need of actually having to get into your bindings without losing your skis down the slope. This committal is somewhere around 2/3's of the way up depending on your route of ascension and, I quote, "your freak level" - look down regularly in order to determine the corresponding freak level.

I have yet to go over the lip, but this is more due to the dates I've gone up and the corresponding snow conditions - non-existant - or my energy levels after hiking up with a pack and all - or, as in my trip up this Mar. - socked in with fog and cold and very ICY, we could hear a few people scraping their way down...

Just remember that a rank novice can ski the bottom of the bowl, if they can get there and don't climb higher than they are capable of, the run may be reeaallyy short.... but they can do it.

I have heard that the steepest descent in the bowl is about 50 at mid headwall with good coverage but typically 40 - 45 across from LG to RG with variations, and Dodges Drop is pushing 60, which is about as steep as snow will stick.

I don't think that there are any marked trails at any ski area in New England greater than Paradise at MRG which is about 40 at its steepest and only briefly, though loaded with trees... and VW sized moguls... fun :D

[SkiStooge]

Mad River is a blast. I am going to have to get out there next winter. My schedule the last 2 winters hasn't given me time to get much farther than Wildcat. I haven't skiied MRG for like 3 years now. I miss the massive doses of duct tape and the wool pants brigade. MRG rocks. (But not as much as Tucks) Have fun, be safe. Al :cool:

[PontiMax]

I made my first ever trip up on easter weekend this year and let me tell you that it is good to read up on what you are going to be doing, but it only gives you a somewhat loose sense of how steep it is. for me anyway, i found the "freak level" factor was more on the side of actually climbing up. as one ascends the steeper it becomes as you may have heard, but with snowboard boots on it was something that i really took my time with. i would imagine it is a little less freaky with hard boots toe stepping. my first run ever was right gulley, just above a crevasse that formed there. it was steep, but not to bad i feel. the next day i hiked the chute. that climb begins ok, then as i got higher every step was testing my freak level.....especially going over the lip. it can make a man whimper. again, for me, as soon as i strap in my board i am at ease no matter what the conditions - but the higher you go, the more you commit yourself to making it up and over the lip to give yourself sure ground to step in to your equipment. i have only been one weekend to tucks and by no means am i a tucks virtuoso, but i posted a story about it here and i concluded it by saying that i experienced so many emotions. one of the more palatable ones was fear (so to speak) climbing the upper portions of the chute. man, what a great place.

my 2 cents,

PontiMax

[Skilasnow]

Stooge: I try to make it to MRG at least 14 days a season, usually have a season pass. Let me know when you can make it next year, we'll try to hook up! :) Or if you get there, ask Brian the bartender if I've been by, he'll know... :p

[TEO]

A couple of things:

Sure, MRG's Paradise is a New England Classic, but the steepest trail in the Northeast is probably Mount Sneaux's Ripcord. It isn't too long and the upper 1/4 is flat, but then it rolls over into the 40 degree neighborhood. There is also a trail at S6, skier's left of the summit lift that is fairly steep.

Secondly, Dodge's Drop is not near 60 degrees. Yes, it is steep but not that steep. The upper section is probably 50-low 50s, maybe 55.

Thirdly, if you're a solid expert skier, there isn't any reason (except fear, of course) why you shouldn't be able to ski the full length of Hillman's, Left Gully, the Lip and Right Gully--conditions warranting.

--TEO

[RR]

As for steepness at Tuck's: well, I can't add anything new to the remarks of the rest of the Tuckerman Tribe...so I won't.

As for...steepest?
Could be "Master Magician" at Magic (on the list of top three anyway). Now that I'm finally getting back to where I want to be, I have a go at MM next season. Off piste, well, that's another matter all together. There are some recent first descents (last two years) that border on the insane...one, so nuts that a certain well known, national-touring, professional steep-meister had to see it done by locals before attempting. Talk to "CainamLlisrettim" if you want to go to such a place next season.

[pjmanchester]

STEEPEST....
I've heard the Sugarloafs whit nitro is the steepest "trail" in the east, now i never took my protractor out there so i cant confirm or deny this allegation.

[<Duke>]

Skimom: I haven't been up in many years and I am planning a trip for sunday/monday. The web pages certainly do look daunting. But my ability many years ago (in the 70s) was limited and I did not fall once. The ravine tends to get your attention. The Gullys are slightly milder as I recall. Hillmans is like a black diamond ski trail. The steepness is generally made easier by the lack of moguls. Frankly its the ice falls that have me concerned. I have skiied out west and in the alps, and Tuckerman's is the most rewarding ski experience of one's life bar none.
Duke

[<Jerm>]

RR -- curious to know what you are talking about. Is this the supposed FD of Arrowhead in Smuggs Notch? I question whether that was really a FD... but nobody will ever really know.

I think Damnation and Yale are more impressive ... and if Pinnicle has ever been done (I have heard reports of one season that it go so windloaded it was, or at least seemed, skiable).

[RR]

I had heard that someone bagged a line in Smugg's, but I was refering to "The Snows of Carathras", a new line above Franconia Notch. I have seen it from the road, but only locals and a few others have done it. Ask CainamLlisrettim (FD)for further details....are you Jeremy, if so you know the FD in that case?

The lines in Huntington would be pretty tough to beat...but they are so often full of climbers that it would be dangerous for all in case of an avy or fall...if they were posted and vacant, sure an attempt on Pinnacle might work, but better take body armor along with the brain bucket!

[<MadFan>]

I don't know about White Nitro at the Loaf or Master Magician at Magic, but I be pretty sure that Paradise is steeper than Ripcord, though I confess that the trees and all.... And if you talk about lift served BC at a ski area than Octupus's Garden is way up there.

[SkiStooge]

Skilas: I'll definitely try to hook for MRG. It's always fun skiing there with someone else. In general, I am somewhat of a lone skiier. TUCKS TOMORROW!!!!! Have fun, be safe. Al

[loafnut]

hey RR,
Where can you see the snows of carathras from franconia notch? Next time im in the area id like to see what this run looks like. It sounds insane.
also, some of the lines in hunts have been done, but im not sure which ones. anyone know?

[Jerm]

TEO, Have you skied Ripcord since hitting puberty? I bet it would feel different going back. According to the topo lines, it is a paltry 31 degrees. Of course, if you park a whaleback on there it might get up to 35 but...

My personal vote for steepest pitch, IN BOUNDS, at a ski area in New England, in the pitch above the midstation on Madonna liftline.

[RR]

If y'all know the backside of Cannon you'll know that a certain large snow field is frequented by locals. But since it is steeper than Tuck's, giving the full details ("out in the open") regarding one of the lines there may lead to problems. The Snows of Carathras is ultra steep, a very narrow and demanding line, and one of the secrets...you'll have to hook up with some locals to check that stuff out.

Sorry. I'm not in that league...left gully is all I can manage just now and between 1988 and 2000 I didn't ski at all.

[Mumster]

What's the story on Hillman's? I haven't heard much about it. Is it still open? Is it representative of the ravine experience in general? Would we be likely to get higher at Hillman's than in the main portion of the ravine?

Nice work on the Graemlins, Dave. :skismile:

[jdew]

I was up to TR with my 15 year-old son for our first time on April 21-22. Arrived in the early pm of the 21st and was able to get in 2 runs on Hillmans that afternoon. Hillmans allows quicker access to skiable snow that the trek up into the bowl. Our plan to go into the bowl on the 22nd was shot down due to assorted hazards that day in the bowl(ice fall, crevases opening up, undermined snow due to the warm temps and waterfalls)as well as the clouds/fog/rain that was dropping into and out of the ravine so it was another day on Hillsman. The top of Hillmans is steeper than the skier's left drop into the "Rocket" at CB this year which I know you are familiar with. Looking forward to next year when my son's Easter break comes earlier in the year.

[loafnut]

Hillmans will hold snow to very late in the year. Its much longer than tucks which translates into a longer run and longer hike. It doesnt have the "party atmosphere" that tucks does but you could probably ski from almost the top of hillmans. Its definatly much different than the ravine, because its a long and narrow and not the bowl experience. A lot of people take a run on hillmans in the morning then hike to the bowl for a quick couple runs in the afternoon. A better option this time of year is to ski the bowl early then hike left gully and traverse to hillmans, ski down that to hojo's.

[Castlerock]

I'll second Jerm's asserion on the Madonna Lift line as the steepest in bounds pitch in NE. I was lucky enough to poach it with two feet of untracked (it is/was typically closed when I used to ski there) on Super bowl Sunday in 1982. Me and two of the local "Rasta Repairmen" (of the mountain ski shop) ripped it just after the chair lift stopped, before the patrol ran sweep. It is my most memorable in bounds eastern ski run.

I do have to sing the praises of Smuggs. The tree skiing on the mountain and in the notch is as good as it gets in NE. And the Hell Brook on Mansfield is a classic.