Cannon: 2 Deaths this year

[M@]

Missed the first story, but according to this one,
http://www.concordmonitor.com/article/230139/snowboarding-shaped-his-life there have been 2 deaths so far.

Neither one wearing helmets - and the 2nd very much so sounded like a helmet could have made the difference. I have no "facts" other than it was a head injury.

What really worries me, and probably has more than a few lawyers from Canon et.al. looking into it is this are two things:

Vigeant was pronounced dead at the scene. He was not wearing a helmet - neither was Langelier - and such protection is not required under New Hampshire law.

Not sure why the reporter mentioned that... I'm unaware of any motion trying to make it a law... especially in NH.

And then this:

Cannon Mountain General Manager John DeVivo said the Turnpike Trail was "clearly marked as a closed trail" and had not been open to skiers or snowboarders so far this season.

Langelier said they didn't realize the trail was closed until after the accident. He said he thought the orange flags at the trailhead indicated a need for caution but still assumed the trail was okay to enter because it wasn't roped off..
Would be interested to see some pictures of exactly how the trail was marked. Ski Patrol has enough work to do and now they're going to have to be extra vigilant in closing things off... and more stringent with people ducking ropes etc.

M@

[Seeker]

Ugh, that is sad news. And so early in the season! I wonder how the first man died on Zoomer?

Condolences to the families. :(

[boardman]

damn, that's some sad sh*t. With the lack of base so far this year, poaching closed trails does not seem like a terribly good idea. RIP to a fellow snow warrior.

[TheSlav]

I've been on Cannon quite a bit this season and was present for the first death. Probably missed his crash by a minute or two and passed over the scene on the Zoomer chair before Patrol had arrived.

He was found just below the cat track that crosses under the chair about 100-150yds up. His skis were another 20-30ft up slope from where he was found. Probably a decent amount of speed involved to spread him that far from his gear. If I had to guess he probably cartwheeled a few times into the edge of the woods. There are lots of rocks scattered in that area and he must have had the misfortune of hitting one before coming to rest. In my opinion a helmet may not have prevented injury but I think it would have given him a much better chance for survival.

I was not present for the second death but I was there the day before and I can attest that it is quite obvious (at least to me and I would think most other experienced riders) that Turnpike was closed. I think the rider's statement saying there was some confusion might have been him trying to shirk some of the responsibility but this is just an assumption on my part, reality is your perception I guess.

There are definitely still some exposed rocks, drainage and water bars on that side of the mountain and you throw in some speed and perhaps just a slight lapse in attention and you have a recipe for disaster. Take a helmet out of that equation and you are really in for some trouble.

Incredibly tragic both for the victims/families and for the Patrol crew at Cannon. Hard to swallow one tragedy, let alone two in as many weeks. I would imagine the unwritten 'look the other way' mentality towards rope ducking at Cannon will be a thing of the past for the rest of this season for sure. I just hope that access to the OB stuff and slackcountry is still embraced or at least ignored because I think that is what makes Cannon what it is.

[brakeformoose]

Two Sundays in a row at Cannon. First deaths since 2007.

I was not there for the first one but the post above seems to have summarized it pretty well. Last I heard was patrol was looking for more witnesses since it was right below Zoomer chair.

I was at the mountain this past Sunday but was leaving about the time the accident happened. The patrol does not always rope off the entire entrance to trails, however maybe they should now. IMO, it was very obvious that the Turnpike trail was closed when I skied by and I believe the riders knew this too.

Both are tragic accidents and it'll will be interesting to see how the mountain, and the state responds. The fact that neither were wearing helmets will certainly stoke the debate over helmet policies. As someone who typically does not wear a helmet while skiing Cannon, I may reconsider after this.

[icelanticskier]

i really find it amusing/sad that folks get all in a tizzy about helmet use in regards to deaths at ski areas. helmet or no helmet, what about skier/rider error/negligence? sure, using a helmet can save lives, but using yer brain can save lives too, and more probably.

everything is to blame except the individual that lost control or were going too fast, or ducked a rope cuz a trail was closed. isn't there a warning label printed on every lift ticket? ski at your own risk!

accountability is lost.:rolleyes:

rog

[Rider.Steve]

ski at your own risk!

accountability is lost.:rolleyes:

rog

Who invited the d*mned Libertarian to this party?

But Rog is correct, every tragic incident of this sort inevitably leads back to the helmet discussion, and to a discussion whether the unfortunate soul was reckless, or unfairly plucked by the grim reaper. Tragic either way.

I vote for drastic measures: suspend the holiday season between TGiving and New year until it is made safe by the Powers. Too much tragedy going on during one segment of the calendar.

[brakeformoose]

i really find it amusing/sad that folks get all in a tizzy about helmet use in regards to deaths at ski areas. helmet or no helmet, what about skier/rider error/negligence? sure, using a helmet can save lives, but using yer brain can save lives too, and more probably.

everything is to blame except the individual that lost control or were going too fast, or ducked a rope cuz a trail was closed. isn't there a warning label printed on every lift ticket? ski at your own risk!

accountability is lost.:rolleyes:

rog

Don't forget bad juju! In both cases there was almost certainly skier/rider error and/or negligence, but this happens all the time at every ski area and deaths are still very rare. Now, two deaths already in such a young season is just a bit too freaky for me. Cannon has some bad vibes floating around right now.

[shogunnamedjust]

there def putting the screws on rope duckers lately...of course since I would never par-take in such tings I dont have to worry.

[riverc0il]

i really find it amusing/sad that folks get all in a tizzy about helmet use in regards to deaths at ski areas. helmet or no helmet, what about skier/rider error/negligence? sure, using a helmet can save lives, but using yer brain can save lives too, and more probably.

everything is to blame except the individual that lost control or were going too fast, or ducked a rope cuz a trail was closed. isn't there a warning label printed on every lift ticket? ski at your own risk!

accountability is lost.:rolleyes:

rog
I don't think helmet discussions are about accountability. I think everyone knows skiing is inherently risky. Whether skiing an open slope, closed slope, glade, or avalanche prone gully, there are risks. Helmets certainly reduce a small percentage of those risks and raising awareness is a good thing, I think. Someone died on frigging TURNPIKE at Cannon. I can't imagine that being any other than a head injury. Maybe a helmet would have prevented the death. And maybe not. The dead skier is no longer here to contemplate that question but we are.

Just to go on record, I am very anti-helmet laws and support the rights of skiers and riders not to wear helmets if they don't want to.

[boardman]

Just to go on record, I am very anti-helmet laws and support the rights of skiers and riders not to wear helmets if they don't want to.

yeah, I feel the same, but that said, I started wearing a helmet about 5-6 years ago, and have never regretted it.

[cannonball]

i really find it amusing/sad that folks get all in a tizzy about helmet use in regards to deaths at ski areas. helmet or no helmet, what about skier/rider error/negligence? sure, using a helmet can save lives, but using yer brain can save lives too, and more probably.

everything is to blame except the individual that lost control or were going too fast, or ducked a rope cuz a trail was closed. isn't there a warning label printed on every lift ticket? ski at your own risk!

accountability is lost.:rolleyes:

rog

I don't really see these as mutually exclusive discussions. Yes, we all are (should be) completely accountable for our own actions. That accountability comes from using our brains (as you say) to make good decisions about how, what, where, when, and with who we go. Those good decisions come in the form of knowledge and experience about snow conditions, terrain, weather, etc, etc. These decisions also come in the form of the tools we choose including skis, clothing, self arrest gear, rescue equipment, etc....and helmets. We all make our own choices about what we think we need and we have to live (hopefully) with those choices.

When a person is lost overnight, we all discuss their preparedness in terms of route finding, clothing choices, etc. When someone is caught in a slide we discuss avy knowledge and tools. When someone dies of a head injury we discuss terrain choices and helmets. Some might consider it judgmental, but more importantly it's a way for us to revisit the incident and learn from the experiences (good or bad) of others. I don't think it's intended to redirect the 'blame' away from the individual. If anything it's a way to evaluate the decisions they made.

I don't promote the mandatory use of any specific gear. It should ALL fall into the realm of self-accountability. For me a helmet is probably the simplest, easiest, least expensive tool that adds a measure of safety in virtually all conditions. I would feel negligent not wearing one and I won't ride without one. My choice.

[icelanticskier]

I don't really see these as mutually exclusive discussions. Yes, we all are (should be) completely accountable for our own actions. That accountability comes from using our brains (as you say) to make good decisions about how, what, where, when, and with who we go. Those good decisions come in the form of knowledge and experience about snow conditions, terrain, weather, etc, etc. These decisions also come in the form of the tools we choose including skis, clothing, self arrest gear, rescue equipment, etc....and helmets. We all make our own choices about what we think we need and we have to live (hopefully) with those choices.

When a person is lost overnight, we all discuss their preparedness in terms of route finding, clothing choices, etc. When someone is caught in a slide we discuss avy knowledge and tools. When someone dies of a head injury we discuss terrain choices and helmets. Some might consider it judgmental, but more importantly it's a way for us to revisit the incident and learn from the experiences (good or bad) of others. I don't think it's intended to redirect the 'blame' away from the individual. If anything it's a way to evaluate the decisions they made.

I don't promote the mandatory use of any specific gear. It should ALL fall into the realm of self-accountability. For me a helmet is probably the simplest, easiest, least expensive tool that adds a measure of safety in virtually all conditions. I would feel negligent not wearing one and I won't ride without one. My choice.

all good words, every one, thanx.

rog

[M@]

I'm against the government enforcing helmet laws: I think that crosses the line of freedom of choice.

I also against the insurance companies forcing resort owners to require helmets: I think that quickly degrades into other areas of equipment requirements and becomes much to hard to manage.

Like others have said: I choose to wear a helmet though.

If I was a resort owner I'd probably put something in place to encourage it though. Maybe have a daily contest where the 100th person getting on a lift get's a free pass, but only if they were wearing a helmet.

Maybe pulling down the safety bar on the chair would be like pulling a slot machine handle and you've got a 1/1000 chance of winning: but again - only if you're wearing a helmet.

M@

[RR]

I don't really see these as mutually exclusive discussions. Yes, we all are (should be) completely accountable for our own actions. That accountability comes from using our brains (as you say) to make good decisions about how, what, where, when, and with who we go. Those good decisions come in the form of knowledge and experience about snow conditions, terrain, weather, etc, etc. These decisions also come in the form of the tools we choose including skis, clothing, self arrest gear, rescue equipment, etc....and helmets. We all make our own choices about what we think we need and we have to live (hopefully) with those choices.

When a person is lost overnight, we all discuss their preparedness in terms of route finding, clothing choices, etc. When someone is caught in a slide we discuss avy knowledge and tools. When someone dies of a head injury we discuss terrain choices and helmets. Some might consider it judgmental, but more importantly it's a way for us to revisit the incident and learn from the experiences (good or bad) of others. I don't think it's intended to redirect the 'blame' away from the individual. If anything it's a way to evaluate the decisions they made.

I don't promote the mandatory use of any specific gear. It should ALL fall into the realm of self-accountability. For me a helmet is probably the simplest, easiest, least expensive tool that adds a measure of safety in virtually all conditions. I would feel negligent not wearing one and I won't ride without one. My choice.

all good words, every one, thanx.

rogDitto!

I'd just like to add that my helmet is the best damned ski hat I have ever had. Warm when I need that and cool when that is what I want.

Still, if it does it's injury mitigation/prevention job and becomes a bunch of chunks, I'll still want a hat. So I bring a nice warm and windproof hat in my kit, resort or BC. That way, if able, I could continue. If I'm stuck due to injury I'd still want a hat. If Other, help yourselves to my flask and cigar...I wouldn't be needing them ;)

[StuckInJersey]

Great conversation. I started wearing a helmet after a skier slam into me full speed. Always had the "Your a good rider and don't fall, no helmet needed I'm wearing a HAT!" mentality but after that it's more about the other folks and tools on the trail as my concern. I feel ackward without it on when at a ski area but will vary in the BC depending on whether the conditions warrant it. Laws requiring them would be terrible, about as terrible as the stupid ski area rule about snowboard leashes. Been riding since 86 and have yet to see a snowboard flying down a slope because the person had no leash on. It ain't no freaking DOG folks, so no leash needed!!!!!!

[Nature]

After not wearing a helmet at all the last 4 years I am happy I got a climbing helmet this summer while it won't provide that much support I know my mother will be happier.

[pleblanc]

Ditto!

If Other, help yourselves to my flask and cigar...I wouldn't be needing them ;)

I'm going to start following Rob along just in case he needs those things safeguarded. :D

paul