Driving through the snow

[BladeGirl]

I had a LOT of trouble on Sunday in my front wheel drive car with all-weather tires, not being able to make it up hills, and not getting traction. I tried chains once on a rental car and had the devil of a time getting them on and off. Any suggestions for something thats easier than chains to handle? I don't want to get studed tires because I will be selling the car in another couple of months, but I need traction this winter!

:hummer: :crampons: :snowflakes:
-BG

[RR]

Cables, they work like chains but are a bunch easier to work with. Still cold wet and dirty, but easier. Chains work better.

If you plan to sell the car, the price of a good set of chains costs a days rental of an SUV.

[skicdave]

I just ordered some Michelin Artic Alpines for our PT after doing some research. Next best thing when chains or studs are not an option.

Now if only we could get some snow... at this rate I'll be the last one to get first tracks!

[Skilasnow]

Nokia makes THE best snow tires in the world w/ or w/o studs.

like RR said, I have a pair of cables, pretty easy to mount/dismount, I paid $55 2 years ago.

For future reference, All Weather tires are no such thing, they are an OK tire on dry surfaces, wet surfaces and light snow, but not great in any of the above. But if you live or expect to drive through any amount of snow more than once or twice a year, you are much better off with a pair of real snow tires and a pair of real dry tires that are decent in the rain. Just remember that snow tires are softer than other tires so the more they get driven on dry roads the faster they wear down.

[M@]

Got 8 Cooper Weathermasters with studs on saturday. Scheduled it last week, and looks like they got on just in time. They are beefy. Kinda loud, but it just reminds me they are there and doing their job.

I stick by my statement that the tires matter more than the car. Front/wheel/clearence etc... it's not as important as the tires. All Seasons do not equal Snow Tires. Four wheel drive makes a difference, but you only end up needing it for like 5 ft of your winter driving - getting going in the really deep stuff.

I realize there's a whole nother class of driving with four wheel drive in 4 ft of snow and just blasting through with power and driving skill...

But for the real world (or at least new england, which is maybe not the real world, thank god) I preach that everyone worried about snow driving should get SNOW tires.

M@

[skicdave]

Ski Las:
Nokia makes THE best snow tires in the world w/ or w/o studs.Really? Do you get a free cell phone if you buy 4? :p

I had no idea Nokia was so diverse.

[Skilasnow]

skicdave:
Ski Las:
Nokia makes THE best snow tires in the world w/ or w/o studs.Really? Do you get a free cell phone if you buy 4? :p

I had no idea Nokia was so diverse. yeah! but its a little like a company named 'Nippon' in Japan, or 'Smith and Sons' here. There is more than one and they aint necessarily related :D

[NH_tele]

Chains & snow tires are ok, but you should really look into getting a better snow car.

SUVs are ok, but they have a high center of gravity, and I usually find them to be less "connected" to the road when driving.

Personally, I'd reccommend an Audi A4 or A6 wagon. I drive a '93 Audi 100 Quattro (the pre-curser to the A6), and it has AWD, and with snow tires, it really is hard to beat! The traction is amazing, and it really rides very nicely; it's not nessesarily the smoothest ride, but youu can feel the road better than in any other car I've ever driven.

If that's too expensive, or hard to find, you could always go with the good old Subaru Legacy Wagon... although I still think Audi's have better snow driving capabilities.

I would suggest a wagon over any other car; they're large enough for skis, and you can sleep in the back in a pinch, but their not as big & unstable as an SUV.

[Skilasnow]

There is a reason why Audi Quattros have won more ralley races over the years, including and especially the Pike's Peak Challenge, than any other car made!!! but they ain't cheap and their parts are the most expensive out there, short of specialty cars like Rolls, Lotus, Ferrari etc, even Porche parts are cheaper than Audi, and they are both from the same mother company, Porche/VW/Audi. Saabs are also great snow cars if you can find one that has been well maintained, they are finicky. Toyota AWD Celicas rock the Ralley world as well. Suburus are great winter cars but have rust problems due to their recycled steel use, but keep them clean, and they will go the distance.

[M@]

Volvo.

M@

[el-bagr]

You folks were talking about Nokian Hakkapeliittas, from Finland.

http://www.nokiantires.com/newsite/tiresub.cfm?cid=1&sid=1

They're the best.

[RR]

Before the Quattros came to the Rallye world there were Capri's. I have a '76 Ghia 2.8. It's been a bit worked over; as in: overbored, offset ground, ported, polished and blueprinted along with gearbox, suspension and friction tweaks. Ruby blew her stack at 8500, but with rollers, her next incarnation (5 so far) will be robust to 9000. With Semperit H rated snows all around she really swings...very entertaining little beastie.

[M@]

Hakapelittas are awsome. I used to sink a bunch of money on those every year or two. They are the best.

Today I pushed the nose of the volvo wagon into the snow bank to ski that Guido trail, and was confident my cooper studs would pull me out, and they did. I'm very glad I spend the money on them this year.

If fundage wasn't as much of an issue, I'd be ridining the hakapalitas.

My guy quotes me $110 for the haka and $80 for the coopers.

[BladeGirl]

Thanks for the tips, guys. I'm looking up the Hakkapelita tires and finding a number of different styles. Which ones have people used (and studs or no studs)? I called a dealer and he wants to sell me one I can't find on the site: the WR (winter radial) Plus Two (or perhaps +2). Its an all year tire but the guy says that it is really a winter tire. He says they don't carry a studed tire for my car (195/55/15).

Also, I found the cables on line, but have not founda tire store or auto store that carries them. Where have people bought them?

-BG

[M@]

I don't remember the hakka style - there are a few this year though. I don't like the sound of "all year long winter tire" at all.

Reminds me of a simpsons quote:
At "High-Pressure Tire Sales", Homer takes advantage of one of the
% coupon book's offers. His car is being inspected while on a lift.

Homer: Now, this wheel balancing is free, right?
Worker: Oh, you betcha, absolutely. Deh, uh, oh, uh-oh, wait a
minute. These tires won't take a balance!
Homer: They won't?
Worker: Nah, nah, no, you hear that clunk? [knocks on wheel]
Homer: No ...
Worker: Well, that tells me you need four new tires.
Homer: Really?
Worker: Yeah. Legally, I can't even let you drive outta here on
these.
Homer: Oh, please, can't you let me slide this time?
Worker: Gee, I'd really like to, but if my boss found out, I ...
[the employee makes a quick hand gesture to his boss]
Boss: All right, what's going on over here? Were you gonna let
this man drive out of here on unsafe tires?
Worker: No boss, I swear!
Boss: Ah, that's it, you're fired!
Homer: No! Wait! This is all my fault! Oh, if I could only
turn back the clock and buy four new tires ...
[the two workers smile]
-- Are you taking advantage of the coupons, or are the coupons taking
advantage of you? "Sunday, Cruddy Sunday"

[RR]

Advance has La Clede (http://www.partsamerica.com/PartDetails.asp?SourceArea=&SourcePage=SEARCHRESULTS&MfrCode=LAC&MfrPartNumber=1026&CategoryCode=3359) cable type chains that should fit 195/55/15 tires (I said "tahrs", just fer fun). The link should take you to model 1026.

I put the Boston zipcode in the search, you may want to look here for Mass locations (http://www.advanceautoparts.com/locator/index.html).

[clg898]

You can purchase them online at JC Whitney. I went looking after RR mentioned snow cables.
Chains and Cables (http://www.jcwhitney.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/EndecaControllerView?D=tire+chains&Dx=mode+matchall&firstSearch=1&catalogId=10101&Nty=1&Ntx=mode+matchallany&Dn=0+111&Ntt=tire+chains&tmplframe=EndecaCategoryView&langId=-1&section=body&storeId=10101&Ntk=AllTextSearchGroup&ss=10101)

Not a bad deal... much cheaper than a tow. I've gotta go look at my tires to see what size I've got on the 'ole Toyota Crudolla... she ain't pretty, but she gets the job done.

[BladeGirl]

Thanks again for the advice. I think I'll start with :tube: , and I agree, I want the real :snowflakes: :icicles: tires, not the all weathers. It looks like Cooper does not make their Weathermaster in the dinky size of my tire (195/55/15) so my options get more expensive. Studs or no studs? Being surrounded by four studs sounds good to me ;) , but one dealer is telling me the not to (or at least not to get the Hakka 1 w/ "eco studs" as they are not a full sized stud and not worth paying for). *sigh*

Thanks for the cable links. I was hoping to get a look at them at a store rather than order tham on line, but maybe I will start with tires and see how they do before getting cables as well.


I just got to get me something before heading back up to :cannon:
-BG

[Skilasnow]

I woulldn't worry too much about studs BG. I would get studs if I lived up North, but you still live in Boston and studs are only going to be a perk over regular snows 2 or 3 times a winter. We salt our roads so within a day most roads are ray pavement. wet and slushy but not packed snow wher studs might be nich, and Cannon is so close to the highway...

[BladeGirl]

After spending the day learning about tires, that stuff invaded my dreams. I woke up with this song (to the tune of "Copacabana")

Her name was Hakka
Hakkapeliitta
She moves like she's racing a cheeta
Yes, she's Hakka, Hakkapeliitta
Gripping and traction are part of her action
When I drove Hakka
I fell in love.

She was expensive
but worth the money
My best friend when days aren't sunny
She keeps me grounded, not in a snow bank
For winter driving, I'm always arriving
with my Hakkas
I won't be late...

-BG

[M@]

Nice song! Love it.

Can't stop singing...

M@

[RR]

I concurr..studs are nice on icy roads, but if you don't use Hurricane Mountain Road (or other similar roads) to skip Conway, you don't need studed snows...just good snows.

[M@]

We hit the roxbury gap at least a dozen times a year - so we got studs. Last year I went up there alone and took the car without snow tires - and it was a nail biter the whole way, hence this year both cars have snow tires.

M@

[RR]

We've been visiting the in-laws place, about one and a half miles south of the road over Roxbury Gap. Six trips so far...the view by the guardrail heading west in the morning is truly excellent!

[Castlerock]

Roxbury Gap Road twice a weekend for me. Hakka's on the Audi and Coopers on the Honda. As RR said it is quite a view at the guard rail. BTW am back from Snowbird , got 30" or so while I was there. Due to the early season snowpack, I did manage to catch my left shin on a buried stick hard enough to need a few stitches. Kept on skiing though. Didn't know it was cut for a few hours. Made first Trams every day and was 5th into Baldy when they finally opened it yesterday. You should have seen the race to the hike once they dropped the rope.

[M@]

Here's my roxbury gap story:
1999 I think it was, crappy tires on the volvo 240 sedan (silver).
Driving up there alone on a dark and stormy night. About 2/3 of the way over the road going west, I realize I might not make it. Shortly after I can't go any higher so I back down a good 1/2 mile it seemed to the flat part. Thought about the 1hr+ that it would take to go around and decided to try again. Got up as much speed as I could and made a run for it. Wicked scary (elongate story here based on how many beers we've all had) and I as I hit the final stretch before the top I am slipping and spinnin but still moving forward. I just BARLEY made it over the top... if I hadn't I would have had to back all the way down.

Anyhow, right as I clear the crest before the guard rale, a plow goes by the other way dumping dirt/salt on the road. D'oh.

M@

[BladeGirl]

End ofthe story: I got a set of four Hakkas on the car last Thursday, and JUST in time. Driving home from Cannon Sunday was a HUGE mess. NO plows, NO sand, whiteout conditions, and My Hakkas got me home safe and sound. :)

Skilas, You HAVE snow tires and didn't put them on? What are you waiting for, Spring? ;)

-BG

[Skilasnow]

BladeGirl:

Skilas, You HAVE snow tires and didn't put them on? What are you waiting for, Spring? ;)

-BG <sarcasm> well YEAH! duh </sarcasm>

Here is the problem: My sister and brother both moved up from MD and stored a lot of stuff in Dad's garage, which, coincidentally, are where the snows for my car are, now somewhat buried. It will take some work to get at them and I didn't have the forthought to go so in October.

[Bannick]

M@:

Anyhow, right as I clear the crest before the guard rale, a plow goes by the other way dumping dirt/salt on the road. D'oh.
I had a similar experience on the road up to the sunshine parking lot cept that it was a tour bus...

I was on my way back east....just broke up with girlfriend been outta work in Vancouver for 5 months had enough money to get my butt back to Toronto and snowboard along the way. If I ate free crackers with condiments washed down with free water at the truck stops and resorts...I think I was pretty close to getting scurvey near the end of the trip.

As I got the fully loaded tempo to calgary it starts to snow...I call...Sunshine is going to open with limited terrain. Get up at 5 am check the report 18-26 inches...back in the car and head back to sunshine in a total blaizzrd. There are semis overturned in the ditches cars spun out every where. But the tempo just kept chuggin along. I had a semi going east loose it and come at me down the snow filled median..he kept it upright (somehow) and out of oncoming traffic.

I get to the turn off for sunshine in good time....cars spun out everywhere....I think I should put on chains...well they are burried inthe trunk under everything I own....so up the access road I go. I get up good momentum..no worries...till i come around a corner and a line of cars is stuck in front of me...back down I go.

This happens two more times.. on the next attempt I make it to a rise where you can see the parking lot down another little hill around a corner and... a full on tour bus is sliding backwards down the hill towards me. I put it in reverse...and start gently backing down the hill.....the bus is starting to get sidways....I need to get out fast or it is over for the tempo. I tap the brakes...and proceed to spin the car about three times while sliding down the hill. I thought for sure I am going over the cliff....I stop spinning,with my nose facing down the hill take a deep breath and point it as the bus is now pretty much in my back seat. I get to the chain up at the bottom pull out and the bus comes to a rest beside me with a bunch of paniced faces pressed up against the windows.

I put it in gear and this time make it to the parking lot get on the gear and head up the gondola.

Moral of the story...keep lots of weight in the car in winter, keep your momentum up and never, under any circumstances, take the bus.

[BladeGirl]

Bannick:
[QUOTE]
...
Moral of the story...keep lots of weight in the car in winter, keep your momentum up and never, under any circumstances, take the bus. Wow, quite a story! I'd add to your list of morals "...and dont be BEHIND the bus either!"


-BG