Teens Rescused from K-Mart off piste

[ski&ride]

These 2 teens are very lucky to be alive after spending the night lost outdoors in the freezing cold. They on the back side of Killington:

Skiers Survive Icy Night (http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2004/01/15/massachusetts_skiers_survive_icy_night/)

I bet they didn't have a -30 sleeping bag either. :icicles: :icicles:

ski&ride

[AlpineZone]

Very lucky indeed. They've been talking about this a lot over on KChat:

http://www.killingtonchat.com/viewtopic.php?t=1730

[TenSeven]

They're responsible to pay for the cost of their rescue. Wow. Personally, I like that concept. Can someone explain to me where they draw the line on when someone is responsible to pay for their rescue and when the authorities foot the bill? What is the criteria involved? :heliski:

[M@]

I've sad it before and I'll say it again:

Threes in the Trees

Of course, I dunno if this would have helped these guys to have a 3rd.

I definatly believe in paying for rescue - it's the only way to prevent lawyers from forcing the ski areas to have stricter policies on those who ski off psite.

M@

[BCSKIER]

Isn't part of the deal that you need to be prepared to spend the night safely? Food, water (or matches to melt snow), etc... A tarp for shelter, or a good sleeping bag... Maybe snowshoes. I think that if you have everything necessary to survive, why couldn't you get yourself out, hence no need for a rescue? It's an interesting subject, and I'm on the fence about it really. I've been really close to having an awful time off the backside of the 'bush (a buddy considered calling in a rescue after we were over 2 hours late meeting him after our last run). We ended up in Jerusalem, hiked on skiis a mile down the dirt road, and hitched from the main road over app gap). The problem is, people have intentionally cut booby-traps that lead you off in the wrong direction to preserve "their" stashes. This may be a rumor, but it wouldn't surprise me at all. Some folks are really into keeping "their" powder to themselves. Maybe ski areas should sell their nice lines in the woods, and only those 3 people can touch that area of the mountain...kidding. This is a tough one.

[M@]

Booby-Traps: If they just lead you away from a stash and back to the main area or something that's fine - but I can't imagine anyone cutting one to send someone into harms way.

There's been some arguing on the Sugarbush board about some guy who marks trees with flashing showing the way to the stashes. A guy I ski with is always ripping them off the trees, and triumphantly plopping them on the bar at the end of the day. Can't say I think that's a bad thing.

M@

[Luddite]

Paying for a rescue makes a lot of sense to me. At least the individual owns SOME amount of responsibility that way. It amazes me that people go OOB without carrying proper gear, especially in this cold weather. Cripes guys, at least get the $24 bivy sack at EMS or something. I mark some of my stashes in the bc, but in a way that I'd have to tell someone where to find the first mark. That way I won't feel responsible if someone gets lost skiing a line I cleared, but I don't tink I'd do it at a ski area - it's like an open invitation to people who maybe shouldn't be there...

[elwood]

#1 rule: Don't go into the bc if you haven't been there before, or if you don't have a guide who knows where they are going. UNLESS you have complete beta on the spot and you are familiar with the area, and you have scoped it out. I have skiied the backside of Kmart, and there are places you can ski to that you don't want to go. Big cliffs. THese kids are very lucky to be alive, especially on such a cold night. They should have to pay double what the rescue cost.

[RR]

Folks get pretty sure of themselves on nicely manicured ski hills....lots of straight BC work will get folks used to the wilder side of the mountains. Being experienced or well led, and prepared is the way to go.

[Mumster]

I agree with all of you who support the notion that people who do idiotic things should pay for their rescues. They are lucky to escape with a bill and frost bite...

TenSeven, I don't know the rules for this. I also wonder how much it costs? Is it total costs, average cost, marginal cost?

[el-bagr]

10-7 et al., on another forum there has been lots of discussion on the reckless recreationist rules:

VFTT discussion (http://www.viewsfromthetop.com/forums/showthread.php3?s=&threadid=766)

It's a state law decision, but VT's is similar to the NH law discussed in the link.

If you just want to see the NH law text, here it is:
N.H. Rev. Stat. § 153-A:24

I. A person shall be liable for response expenses if, in the judgment of the court, such person:

(a) Negligently operates a motor vehicle, boat, off highway recreational vehicle, or aircraft while under the influence of an alcoholic beverage or controlled drug and thereby proximately causes any incident resulting in a public agency response;
(b) Takes another person or persons hostage or threatens to harm himself or another person, thereby proximately causing any incident resulting in an appropriate public agency response; or
(c) Recklessly or intentionally creates a situation requiring an emergency response.

II. A person's liability under this subdivision for response expenses shall not exceed $10,000 for any single public agency response incident.

[TenSeven]

We could use that here. I love New Hampshire. The closest we've ever had to that was the large department stores and grocery stores were sueing shoplifters to pay the costs of loss prevention personnel. Eventually the Courts put the kibosh on that.

[RR]

I carry rescue insurance, but I try to keep my skill-set growing apace with my plans and hope to never need it.

[TenSeven]

RR, rescue insurance? Do you know if that's available for groups?

[el-bagr]

It is available for individuals and groups through the American Alpine Club (http://www.americanalpineclub.org/community/members-benefits.asp?ctype=community&stype=members).