Any advice for a newbie?

[brooksiehockey]

Hey guys. Please let me apologize beforehand for asking a very hackneyed and over-posted question. I am just looking for a personal reply from someone. My four friends and I are going snowboarding in NH (Loon) (where I grew up) and want to board Tuckermans Ravine. I already have done lots of research (wiki, timefortuckermans.com etc.) but I wanted to see if anyone had any personal experience. We would be going March 5th. (its the only time I can go) I know it is best in April-May but I wanted to know how we should prepare for going early season. Is mountaineering gear required for going this early? I know this season the snow hasnt been plentiful. crampons ax? ? Hiking time?Any Advice would be most appreciated. Yes I know its dangerous we are skilled snowboarders. Thanks guys!

[yuckster]

RECCO device??? :eek:

[yuckster]

You might want to try asking over on TGR. They know a lot more about avy's, they set them off all the time.

[riverc0il]

For March 5th, mid-winter conditions should be expected requiring avalanche gear/skills/knowledge/experience. Picking a date based on your availability is ill advised. It is best to pick a date based on the mountain's availability first and your's second. Not sure what your backcountry experience entails, but if it is limited, this would not be a good time to be in the ravine without the appropriate gear/skills/knowledge/etc.

[yuckster]

On the off chance that this is a serious post... and not someone like B.K. stirring the pot... RECCO reflectors are useless at Tux, the rangers don't have detectors, and even if I'm mistaken, they probably won't be out with them on March 5th.

Besides the more general principle that the only avalanche rescue is self-rescue. You must not rely on outside help arriving in time - you only have 15 minutes. Take a class.

[wooley12]

A RECCO is a reflector that works if you are inbounds at one of the few ski areas that has the equipment to find you. Or in Switzerland I think. Worthless in the backcountry. Like I said to my brother when we walked a mile out onto the Blue Glacier, alone, with zero experience - "I think we might be so stupid that we don't know we are being stupid". We were stupid and somehow survived being stupid - barely. So don't be stupid.

[skiup]

so Tucks is only for the people who have beacons and avy course under their belt?? Nothing wrong with being prepared, but c'mon, it's not himalayas, how about actually some useful advice?
If this is your first time out there, do not set your goals too high - hike up, look around, ski/ride something you are 110% comfortable with. Don't go in avy terrain if rating is above 2 (find out now what this means, read more!). Hike is not going to be easy - 2 hours, maybe 3 if you don't pace yourself. March 5th might be a perfectly fine day for it, but you might endup just going to HoJo's - not the end of the world by the way! You can bring axe and crampons, but most likely you will not be comfortable in the terrain where these would be useful, so instead lighten up your pack, be conservative and stay on simpler terrain. If you need more info- send me a PM, I most likely be there on that date.

[yuckster]

You seem to be advising someone to go into "avy terrain" when the rating is moderate, without a beacon.

I'll assume that was just a poor choice of words.

[riverc0il]

so Tucks is only for the people who have beacons and avy course under their belt?? Nothing wrong with being prepared, but c'mon, it's not himalayas, how about actually some useful advice?
Those seem like good prerequisites when there is the potential for slides and avalanche danger exists. It does not need to be Himalayan to be respected. Any open bowl over 30 degrees (sometimes even lower on occasion) with certain conditions can slide.

The original post suggests to me that this might even be a first time hiking into a backcountry area for this group. (maybe I am wrong, but that is the impression I got based on the questions and the way they were asked). Tuckerman Ravine in the middle of winter does not seem like the best place to be for someone without avi knowledge and gear in case something goes wrong.

[RR]

Hi brooksiehockey! Welcome to T4T.

Assuming your group has good sense to go along with good tecnical ability with your snowboards, March can provide a very good time. Unfortunately, as the others have been saying, March is one of the busiest months for frequent avalanches. Late March is often better than early March.

You have the advantage of being able to read the avalanche report before you go up. Further, you should hike up early with your boards and talk with the Snow Rangers. Do not proceed without listening to what they tell you and discussing the information very deliberately.

As an aside, I think it's a good idea to get up close enough to see the place and get a visceral understanding of its scale. That alone will be good for you!

Anyway, back on topic:
Assuming the level is Moderate and you all choose to take a run on the Sherby instead, just what have you lost? Nothing!

The Sherbie is fun and Wildcat is right across the street. Go ride the lifts there and enjoy the scenery. You will have done more than 95% of skiers/riders ever do and all before lunch!

Seriously, one of the keys to traveling in avalanche country is to have a backup plan in case conditions are too dangerous and/or your own gut feelings tell you to turn around and take the safer alternative.

There's one last bit of advice I have for you: Go up there as frequently as you can, with the guys or alone. Listen to the Snow Rangers and the Mount Washington Volunteer Ski Patrol every single time. Go often enough and you will have some perfect days and will also have developed the ability to turn around for safety's sake. If conditions are generally safe, but crappy....well, sometimes that's all we get, most among us will just ride the groomers instead.

Happy Trails.

[boardman]

Yeah, please don't discount the avy advice! Expecially since current weather models are showing an end-of-the-month storm possible, which could easily leave lingering instabilities on March 5th. To the OP, you can gamble and go up there in early March unprepared, or you can just wait until the spring skiing season, when the avy danger has generally subsided, and there's a thousand people there to assist if something goes wrong. If you decide to go in March, you have to be disciplined enough to accept what the mountain is offering on that day. If you don't know how to identify an isolated pocket of windslab on a Moderate-rated slope, don't have avy gear and the knowledge to use it, and aren't familiar with safe travel techniques, then be prepared for the consolation of just having recon'ed the bowl for a future trip, and get a good long run on the Sherbie for your efforts (and get yourself educated before next winter!). Tuck's has been there for a million years, and it'll be there for a million more, so you can always come back another day.

Just my $.02

[PWDR8S]

Welcome aboard!

What you're planning to do and what you are going to do should depend heavily upon your skill and that grey area between your ears. Many have trekked up to Tuckerman Ravine in March(which is still deep winter) without avy knowledge and axe and crampons but have taken serious and unnecessary risks in doing so. I strongly recommend having at least Avalanche I under your belt before heading into a high risk area such as Tuckermans in deep winter. Feb-Mar are the highest avalanche months up there.

I'm considered very experienced with Tuckermans in all seasons and good and bad weather(often not by choice) and even I'm reluctant to go up during this time due to the excessive avalanche potential. I would recommend RR's and other's suggestions to go up on recon and then slide the Sherburne Trail back down. You'll still have fun with your buds and have greater knowledge of what to expect the next time you go. Trust me, you will go back!

If you're going up to unload a couple friends or ex girlfriends, I don't want to know about it. :p

Good luck and I trust you will make the wise decision. Having many here advise you not to head into the ravine without avy knowledge and skill should speak volumes about the plan. I would prefer to have you still around with many future adventures under your belt to share with the rest of us Tuckermaniacs.

[brooksiehockey]

Thanks so much guys. It seems I have slightly underestimated the seriousness of avalanches in march. I am no stranger to hiking in NE but I would rather be safe than sorry. I will keep monitoring the mountain very closely when I'm there and if it doesn't feel right perhaps try the surrounding trails or just go another time. Thanks again guys!

[bdan]

Another Newbie here. Do I need a permit to climb Tucks?

[M V Skier]

Do I need a permit to climb Tucks?

No, but you definitely need a brain.

[lacman]

Another Newbie here. Do I need a permit to climb Tucks?

$20 per person, payable to my Paypal account.

No you don't really, but if you plan to camp at Hermit Lake there is a fee.

so Tucks is only for the people who have beacons and avy course under their belt?? Nothing wrong with being prepared, but c'mon, it's not himalayas, how about actually some useful advice?...Don't go in avy terrain if rating is above 2 (find out now what this means, read more!)

Having been there in 2002 when two people died on a day with a Moderate (2) rating (http://www.tuckerman.org/accident/20022003.htm), I think it would be foolish to go in there without any sense of what an avlanche is, how powerful they are, how to avoid the terrain, etc., let alone be able to assess stability for yourself. Skiup's comment is careless at best. So Skiup, how would you feel about your advice if brooksie got avalanched and died? "Well, it's not the Himalayas" is hardly a consolation. Here's some useful advice: ignore Skiup.

There's a big difference between skiing in winter (i.e. March 5) and skiing in good conditions in April/May when numerous freeze-thaw cycles have made the snow super-stable. Avalanches don't care if you are a "skilled snowboarder" or not.

Brooksiehockey, inquiring minds want to know. Did you go? How about a TR?

[mtd2007]

What RR said, for sure -