Jay v. Stowe

[efoxx]

So I posed this question on another thread and I thought I would do the same here, which is the better resort in Vermont, Jay or Stowe? I have never skied at Jay and I know I am totally missing out, but this winter I have made it top priority to get there. I have skied Stowe, and I think they have the best terrain in the east. I was hoping to get your thoughts, irrespective of Jay's amazing snowfall, pound for pound which resort has better terrain? Finally I live in NYC so getting up north is always a hike, but I was considering Stowe, but have given it second thoughts now given the 6 hour drive. I am thinking about getting a Killington pass instead as it is closer and has lots of terrain, and is reliable (lots of snow making if old man winter decides to crap out). I had an all east pass several years ago so I skied Killington several times, but it was during one of our less fortunate snow years so I never got to explore the mountain. Does anyone know if Killington has any great stashes or whether they even have good tree skiing?

[icelanticskier]

i was a pass holder at jay for a time and have skied stowe a bunch and i'd have to honestly say that jay absolutely pales in comparison to stowe. stowe has way more of everything including way more vert/steeps and off piste terrain and you can find fresh for much longer than at jay.

killington to me is way under-rated and i'd have no issues in being a pass holder there. they get a fair bit of snow, have great terrain on and off piste and it's just plain big. it's also south enough to get lots of storms that miss jay/stowe.

remember, i only ski mid week, so pretty much everywhere has zero crowd issues when i'm on hill.

rog

[RR]

They both have long, flat runouts but Stowe has many continuous top-to-bottom trails that interest experts and the rest. Jay has none for experts.

Both have confusing crossovers that will take you to the other base area. Stowes in-between-the-bases terrain is out-farcking-standing, some of the best there is.

Stowe beats jay in amenities too:
The Matterhorn - Minutes from the base and decent, inexpensive pizza with nicely-priced, draft beers during happy hour.

The Shed - Pricey food but their Brewmeister is among the best!

Movies, Drugstore, Supermarket, Live Music venues (note that as plural, as in six or seven places to go for good music!)

Black Forest Cake second to none in the known Universe....at the Trap


In a nod to the uber-skiers:

Yeah, Jay gets a lot of snow and has some serious chuteing accessed practically right off the tram as the scrambles are short. But Mansefield gets plenty of snow too and has 10 times the chuteing!

[winters2short]

I would vote for Stowe too, some specifics considered. I too ski midweek, so crowds are never an issue. But that said, Stowe has way more in vertical steeps and kick-your-ass challenging runs like Goat and off the Nose. Jay gets the snow in inches and I would never knock a day there, but the ride is such a haul up and back that access to Stowe is a no-brainer. And amenities. You just can't touch Stowe. Both on the mountain and off.
As for Killington, well they have great terraina dn a big mountain, but the crowds, esp. on weekends. as well as the (no offense) Ct. and NYC folks and their Condo flauntin' attitudes bum me out. I won't ski there.
anywho, that's my two cents.
See you on the slopes!!!! cannot wait, I am busting at the seams.

[riverc0il]

As a Jay pass holder of four years and having skied at Stowe only a half dozen times or so, I would stand by those that vouch for Stowe having the superior terrain of the two mountains. I do not really think any mountain can match Stowe in terms of terrain. But it costs a lot to ski that terrain thus I season pass at Jay and slum it at Stowe when they have deals. If Stowe didn't cost twice as much as Jay, I would probably season pass there instead.

[icelanticskier]

one thing that has kept me from skiing stowe (i ski there for free btw), for the past couple of seasons is the crowds on pow days during the week. like jay, stowe is known for it's pow and when it snows, like alta utah, the whole town seems to show up and track it out b4 the place even opens. ya pull in an hour b4 the lifts open and there are many a skin track and many, many more tracks coming down from everywhere. $hit, the bc gets tracked b4 the gondi side opens at 9am. jay isn't quite as bad in that respect, but jay has like 1/3rd or less terrain than stowe. there are MANY other new england resorts that i'd much rather frequent on pow or corn days, one of them being sugarloaf. whole different world over there, especially on the right days and it skis bigger than stowe or jay imho. steeper too.

oh! hey steve! wanna ski cannon in fresh pow when everyone else thinks it's raining and has to wrap presents? that was such a fun time!

rog

[pleblanc]

Gee rog- You must be mistaken on your take on the 'loaf. That place has no terrain and is overcrowded, even mid-week.;) Me thinks everyone would be better served at all those FANTASTIC resorts in VT. Ya know, all that powder and no crowds. Nothing to see here in Maine. Move along, move along. I give Jay and Stowe twin top billing! Paul-

[riverc0il]

oh! hey steve! wanna ski cannon in fresh pow when everyone else thinks it's raining and has to wrap presents? that was such a fun time!

rog
Indeed! I may have a pass at Jay but I never pass by Cannon when the snow is good there!

But the OP posted about terrain, not snow conditions. But Rog brings up great points about how quickly Stowe gets nailed. Jay is a go go go mountain too on a powder day but at least you don't have to get up at 4am to make first tracks (or at least I don't :) ). With Stowe's earlier than standard opening, the locals and early hotel risers get the goods long before most day trippers. No one shows up to Jay until 10:30a-11:00a on a powder day, and though there is less terrain than Stowe, Jay has lots of places to mine powder late into the morning. I can't compare directly but I Jay may be able to be milked more for powder. The lack of high speed lifts stateside certainly helps powder retention later in the morning too. They both have good wind hold options.

[RR]

Goat Woods, that hiking trail I won't name, a couple inbounds drainages and plenty more not very secret treasures have seen my tracks touch no others during shop appreciation Days in past years.

In a couple places I had 1st, 2nd & 3rd tracks...although, during the third run I was beginning to think it was getting skied out with all that traffic :D

Back in my High School years Stowe was our home hill. You know, when we were still doging Sabretooth Tigers. Anyway, plenty of the old places remain and some darned fine new ones have been "revealed". We did loose a few of the old places to development...very sad...but not all that consequential as the very best stuff is still OB.

[Affix Snow]

Beleive it or not, I only skied stowe once. Jay, many times.

Stowe has better terrain.

I really wanna go back and get "shown around". :)

[gpetrics]

stowe < jay < mount mansfield

[sfmornay]

stowe < jay < mount mansfield

Indeed, a huge distinction. It's a little cloudy whether this thread is concerned primarily about trail maps or more.

[RR]

more!

Like, how many of us stick to the trails anyway?

[surfsnowywaves]

Don't lick trail maps when it gets to be -20, you miidde gedd yaw toung ttuck to it.

[riverc0il]

stowe < jay < mount mansfield
That, is a really great point. I don't normally differentiate no more than I separate Jay from Big Jay and all the other surrounding BC. Both of these mountains, to me, are "areas" more than "ski areas" i.e. neither mountain is truly defined by its boundaries. By the "Jay Area" definitely can not tough the "Mansfield Area".

[drewvw]

Stowe...still my favorite ski resort on the planet after all these years.

[RR]

Back in the day, as Mt. Mansefield Ski Club members we got a reduced price on lift tix. During my High School Junior and Senior years my tix were $6, yes, that's six dollars.....or :D the pelt of either a Cave Bear or Sabertooth tiger would get me a season pass.

[natron]

prob. not worth it. pass to killington/pico vs. stowe I choose stowe, great mt. my favorite in n.h. and vt. is stowe followed by jay. that said take a week off and come to where I make my turns at the "loaf" or saddleback, saddleback's new quad to their summitt offers unbelievable trees, steeps, beauty and lack of crowds. the loaf mid-week after 100% open is the top dawg of the east. backside snowfields in 1-3 ft of fresh powder, is heavenly and rare:D:cool:

[icelanticskier]

prob. not worth it. pass to killington/pico vs. stowe I choose stowe, great mt. my favorite in n.h. and vt. is stowe followed by jay. that said take a week off and come to where I make my turns at the "loaf" or saddleback, saddleback's new quad to their summitt offers unbelievable trees, steeps, beauty and lack of crowds. the loaf mid-week after 100% open is the top dawg of the east. backside snowfields in 1-3 ft of fresh powder, is heavenly and rare:D:cool:

killington, pico, stowe, jay, burke on pow days? pico and burke hands down for easy to find untracked.

saddleback? shoulda left the old t-bar in to keep the top even less crowded-great hill! loaf on all points mentioned above? couldn't agree more. best late april corn skiing as well, sick actually. i blow off alot of perfect mt washington days in april to ski a less crowded loaf t2b in perfect corn via lift assist.

rog

[petebanta]

Hi Gang. Did you miss me? :D

Summer has (nearly)flown by and cold night have got me getting the pow itch, so I thought I would pop in for a quick glow & lurk, and lo & behold, one of my fave subjects - Stowe vs Jay. Here's my take...

Stowe is the Best Resort Mountain in the East. Hands Down. Period. I have spent time at nearly every VT & NH Resort, and while nearly all have good points, and some very strong aspects (especially in NVT), Stowe is the complete package. Big (by East standards), steep and lots of snow. Throw in the quickest lifts around and you get lots of mtn/pow for your $. I know it is god-awful expensive (and you can thank me for the handful of discount days they added recently - I fought hard to get those when I was there), but if you take the number of quality runs there vs slower/lesser resorts, you get more bang for the buck there ona pow day (or groomed, for that matter, with the best grooming around, now that they hired away the guy from Okemo).

Jay also has some great terrain (but more not-so-great terrain than Stowe and less of the great), and does get a lot of snow, but don't go by just the numbers. Jay's snow is often lighter and fluffier, mainly due to lower temps when it falls and wind enahnancement. So, the 6-12" at Jay is often very wispy and often over very hard snow. That same event might only yield 4-8 at Stowe, but (and I know this INTIMATELY, as I was in charge of snow reporting there for several years) it is a more dense and compact snow that actually supports weight better and rides like more than the measurement. And Jay often has wind issues, so the best stuff can be impossible to reach without hiking, and then you go back the next day when it chills and it is ruined and skis like styrofoam. So, the best argument for Jay (snow #'s) don't really hold up. But Steve does an excellent job of selling it on that. ;)

Now, Stowe has some not-so-great aspects to be sure. Wind can be bad there (though less problematic than Jay - just add up the delay days), and it is a ZOO on pow days, BUT if you know you're way around, and you are willing to take quality over quantity, there is snow to be found days after storms. No, you will not get firsts in Hellbrook unless you stay at Taft Lodge or start before lifts, but if you get there when you should on a pow day, you will get a share of the fun. It is true that all the easy-to-get-to lines are pretty done by 10am (opens at 7:30 @ Quad), generally, but most weekdays are not that bad. Weekend pow days... maybe not so much... And if you are on any kind of a budget for stay & eat, book something in Waterbury. :(

Spruce Peak is some fun terrain to go to when you got there too late for Mansfield side, too, and then there is access to some other stuff from there...

I would also endorse Smuggs. Lots of great woods and laps in the Notch cannot be beat. Slower, nicer vibe than Stowe, but less vert/runs. Like Stowe with less of the Uber Athletes and Entitlement Attitudes.

Sugie is also good (but less good woods than Stowe), and Bolton Valley can be a private pow heaven, but terrain is either flatter or shorter.

Killington - Meh. And anything south of there is junk. Don't waste your time.

I'm talking to you, Flatton...

My secret fave - Burke. Inexpensive, Fun, steep runs (like a 1/2 Stowe) and NOBODY there on a week day (though Ginn is doing good job at building biz).

I know pretty much every inch of (all sides of)Mansfield/Notch, if people come to VT this winter and are looking for some guidance. If you have not skied the Bruce, Teardrop, Tusk or the like, you haven't yet skied Stowe...

CAN'T WAIT for some snow this year. Have a special project in mind for MW/Prez Peaks this winter...

[yuckster]

I know pretty much every inch of (all sides of)Mansfield/Notch, if people come to VT this winter and are looking for some guidance. If you have not skied the Bruce, Teardrop, Tusk or the like, you haven't yet skied Stowe...

Shh... Bruce is an illegal line! You are leaving the resort boundary! If you go in there, you'll either die, or be billed for your rescue, or you'll die and your relatives will be billed for the body recovery! :rolleyes:

[icelanticskier]

Shh... Bruce is an illegal line! You are leaving the resort boundary! If you go in there, you'll either die, or be billed for your rescue, or you'll die and your relatives will be billed for the body recovery! :rolleyes:

i only ski mid week at stowe and more often than not my 1st run off of the 8am quad on a pow day is the bruce/waterfall as it's the only way to get it untracked and i'd much rather hit that for all of it's vert then cross tracks from the way to many burton split crew b4 they head to work. once done with bruce it's skins on to the top of the sky for the day which yields heaping lines of untracked all day long. if it's a refill pow day where it is just dumping, i'll stay inbounds.

the best is when the gondi side never opens for the day due to the wind on pow days and everyone heads over and right out onto the bench and beyond leaving all of chin clip a face shot free for me. one day i lapped chin clip 3 times b4 someone hiking over was like, "is that any good?" i replied, "well you can ski chopped up moguls in the woods or ski untracked face shot pow t2b on this wide open run". makes me laugh, the herd mentality. whatever happened to tracking out the open slope b4 hitting the woods. pow ski etiquette is a lost art for sure.

killington? i've had some truly amazing days there in trees that hold untracked WAY longer than stowe and is no less endowed as far as terrain goes in most ways.

the jays, stowes, and mrg's of the world are "the places to go" for terrain and pow, leaving many other resorts in maine, nh, and vermont, MUCH MORE ATTRACTIVE on many days due the fact that they get overlooked by the herds, which for many of us works out just fine.

rog

[drewvw]

I know pretty much every inch of (all sides of)Mansfield/Notch, if people come to VT this winter and are looking for some guidance. If you have not skied the Bruce, Teardrop, Tusk or the like, you haven't yet skied Stowe...


word...

[yuckster]

I second the Killington. There is a lot more there than people realize. But you have to deal with this localism vibe... as for Stowe and Jay, I have been to both of them on some truly epic days. Jay the Saturday after the notorious V-Day storm. It was tracked out after the first run, but at least it stayed soft--and that first run off Green Beret was epic. Stowe however I most recently (most recently except for the skivt partee) got on a total refill day. After multiple people had laid tracks down Profanity, it was just immediately refilled and stayed that way, soft and deep, until you hit the traverse line that comes out of Chin Clip, at which point it was an epic suckfest. Others have commented on how crazy it is getting there at Stowe - people track up the woods first and foremost.

Back on topic I think I would pick Jay if I were an intermediate skier who wanted to ski wide open glades on a midweek powder day, or I wanted to break out the skins and hit the Jay BC. In any other circumstances, Stowe's probably the better bet.

[yuckster]

As for the Bruce Trail... it is unconscionable that the nordic center would maintain this trail and then the alpine resort would essentially sign it "keep out." Way to send mixed messages to resort users.

[icelanticskier]

i like "keep out" signs. without em, things would get tracked out much more quickly.

valentines day storm huh? good one. i followed that thing up from canaan valley west virginia where they had gotten 105 inches in less than 3 weeks time. skied that up then hit burke the day b4 valentines day (the better day imho) and then again on valentines day, then mrg on the friday, followed by epic pow skiing of of mount monroe for the weekend. quite a storm week that was. heck, that whole jan 15th-end of april (sugarloaf 108" of snow that april) of 2007 was just ridiculously epic. best since 2001.

rog

[samthaman]

stowe really sucks actually, its pretty tracked out all the time, gets almost no snow and doesn't have the terrain that Jay has. I vote everyone goes to jay.

[icelanticskier]

stowe really sucks actually, its pretty tracked out all the time, gets almost no snow and doesn't have the terrain that Jay has. I vote everyone goes to jay.

jedi mind tricks.....i'm on your side young jedi.....sometimes people believe what they read. let's hope there are alot of believers out there. question is: what will they believe? mmmmwwwwwwwwhhhhhhhaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!

rog

[The Lisa]

jedi mind tricks.....i'm on your side young jedi.....sometimes people believe what they read. let's hope there are alot of believers out there. question is: what will they believe? mmmmwwwwwwwwhhhhhhhaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!

rog

"These aren't the glades you're looking for."

[RR]

"These aren't the glades you're looking for."Brilliant!
I owe you a Guiness :D

Reps trifecta...
All that typing made me thirsty!

[Jeanounet]

Sorry people but those who say that the best terrain in the east...bla bla...bla... maybe have never skied Mont Ste-Anne before. Just try it and tell us about it...

When will the snow finaly arrive?

[icelanticskier]

Sorry people but those who say that the best terrain in the east...bla bla...bla... maybe have never skied Mont Ste-Anne before. Just try it and tell us about it...

When will the snow finaly arrive?

quebec doesn't count.

when will it snow? well, we may see some snow, but indian summer is coming and any bit of snow we get will be long gone. i could use some more warm weather. until we have some sort of base that lasts till july, summer activities are the priority.

rog

[RR]

tsk-tsk!

Of course Quebec counts...just not in this comparison between Jay Peak and Stowe.

I have not been to Mt. St. Anne nor have I been to Tremblant, nor to Le Massif, nor Mt Comis, so I have no comments of comparison.

I have been to Petit Mt. St. Anne and enjoyed that immensely....but the only lifts there were the skins on our skis and whatever muscle power required....

Bloody fine skiing, but not a modern mechanized resort pounding its pecs for supremacy....

[icelanticskier]

tsk-tsk!
Of course Quebec counts...just not in this comparison between Jay Peak and Stowe.


quebec doesn't count, not because of the skiing there;)

i was talking to a guy today that used to spend winters at stowe. he spent time off piste there and was talking about how epic the winter of 2000-2001 was. then he tells me that he once skied an area off of and beyond the bench where he actually was able to ski 2 untracked laps in there b4 it got all tracked out on a pow day. i told him to go to burke where you can ski a pow day, the day after the storm, and ski the wide open trails under the lifts and get untracked. he didn't get it.

rog

[Teton Pass Phil]

Stowe may have some good shussing if you want to hang out with AIG exec's but if you want steeps, pow, and great BC access Jay is the tits. Take it from a powderwhore from Grand Targhee/Jackson Hole/Teton BC skier who had to move back to the east coast, Jay has the goods. And to top it off, Jay has a sweet apre' ski scene. Very hippy dippy! Knee deep pow-pow and jaw dropping wow-wow. Stowe doesn't even AVG 300". Jay AVG's 375". Better than a lot of CO. resorts. Like I always say "I'd Rather be skiing than happy with you"

[icelanticskier]

Stowe may have some good shussing if you want to hang out with AIG exec's but if you want steeps, pow, and great BC access Jay is the tits. Take it from a powderwhore from Grand Targhee/Jackson Hole/Teton BC skier who had to move back to the east coast, Jay has the goods. And to top it off, Jay has a sweet apre' ski scene. Very hippy dippy! Knee deep pow-pow and jaw dropping wow-wow. Stowe doesn't even AVG 300". Jay AVG's 375". Better than a lot of CO. resorts. Like I always say "I'd Rather be skiing than happy with you"

B.S.

GT, JH, TETON BC SKIER? that explains plenty.

rog

[riverc0il]

Stowe may have some good shussing if you want to hang out with AIG exec's but if you want steeps, pow, and great BC access Jay is the tits.
Jay? Steeps? Compared to Stowe? That is not even debatable, Stowe has MUCH MORE steeper terrain than Jay. Not even worth comparing in detail. BC access? I would have to give the nod to Stowe there again. A shorter hike than Jay to big Jay (though a little more effort) but a whole different world of options. I have only skied off the ridge of Mansfield once and was a season pass holder at Jay for three years and I respect Mansfield's BC options more than Jay's. Pow? Edge to Jay but it is so close it really is not worth splitting airs, IMO. Jay gets more but Stowe has better preservation and not as much wind blowing it all around.

[RR]

.... Jay gets more but Stowe has better preservation and not as much wind blowing it all around.Man if you were a bit older you might remember the lift blankets gratefully employed on cold days. I have skied on 4 blanket days at Stowe (1960's) when they ran the lift in winds that would close lifts today, sometimes at temps of -20F or colder.

Winds like those moved a lot more snow back then as there was very little grooming on ski trails...the woods were a refuge on such days...

Stowe gets plenty of wind!

[Harkin Banks]

Man if you were a bit older you might remember the lift blankets gratefully employed on cold days.
I'm old, but not old enough to have used one...just never got there early enough in life. Of course, back in the days when they were still being used, I wasn't the skier I am today and wouldn't have been there anyway.
Still, (and as TMC Clubhouse Curator, it will come to no surprise to most of you) I've got one of them. Not the earliest blankets from the first chair, mind you, but one of the later models that were quilted and with a hood and stenciled on the back: "PROPERTY OF MT MANSFIELD SPRUCE PEAK".
A ski buddy of mine who 'appropriated' it back in the day, gave it to me when he heard about my ski archive collection...he was gonna chuck it, if you can believe that!

[carvincarter]

I have skied on 4 blanket days at Stowe (1960's) when they ran the lift in winds that would close lifts today, sometimes at temps of -20F or colder.


Want proof of global warming-In my 30 + years starting in '79, the worst I experienced was 3 blanket days, but bouncing off the towers on the way up the single used to add a little extra thrill on those windy days. Gotta love JWM! ;)

[ptex1.1]

i told him to go to burke where you can ski a pow day, the day after the storm, and ski the wide open trails under the lifts and get untracked. he didn't get it.

rog
Yeah you must be confused :doh:. Its ok listen up everyone, there is no snow ever at Burke and no fancy new spa or ice arena. You must be thinking of Jay.

[natron]

doesn't get as much snow as stowe they just pretend to;) Stowe is superior to any chair service in NH or VT in my opinion (and 3rd best in New England my opinion):D

[riverc0il]

Stowe gets plenty of wind!
No doubt... but it does not get scoured like Jay does.

[SkiStooge]

Jay to ski...Stowe to hang out...but Jay is pretty alright to hang out at too....maybe I'm just too ready to ski this year....my back yard looks good to me right now...Oh wait! my back yard is flat and swampy. Ok. Enough prattling from me. Miss you all. Might just have to get a computer and an Internet connection at home someday.