Newbie questions about appropriate gear to bring

[Dalau]

Hi. This spring will be my first trip to the Ravine and I have a few initial questions, and maybe more will pop up later. My trip is in the first week of April. Edit: 1-day trip

-1) What size pack should I bring? Is 3000 cubic-in (49L) appropriate? Too big? Too small? I'm a snowboarder, so I want to carry enough for any situation, but not so much that I'll be so unbalanced on the runs down.

-2)Should I bring an ice axe?

-3)Should I (and my group) carry beacons?

Thanks!
-Dan

[brakeformoose]

1) If you are just talking about a day trip then 49L is bigger than necessary. However, if it is all you have you can make it work. You will just have to carry all the beer that your friends can't fit in their packs.

2) If you have the ice ax already it won't hurt to bring it. Early April can be nice spring corn where you don't need it or mid-winter conditions with solid snowpack so its a tough call at this point.

3) Most people that spring ski in the bowl don't bring them because they don't have them. If you have them you can bring them but the whole point of skiing tux in the spring is so you can have warm temps, corn snow, and low avalanche danger.

[icelanticskier]

early april? it's gonna be full on winter conditions with feet of new, high danger with a he-l-l breaking loose. why do i think this? cuz, we're due.
rog

[Fanatic1]

Definitely due! I was there for the Nor'Easter April 13-17, 2007 when we had 35" in 4 days...Bring on those Spring conditions!

[Dalau]

As an engineer, I'm ready for the criticism that's about to come.

I don't own an axe, but how would the claw side of a hammer do?

[yuckster]

probably better than an ice axe for self arresting on snow, but snow isn't what we're worried about most.

[brakeformoose]

As an engineer, I'm ready for the criticism that's about to come.

I don't own an axe, but how would the claw side of a hammer do?

While it is always tempting to find suitable substitutes for gear that you do now own yet, an ice axe is not something you want to skimp on. The fact that you do not own one also implies you do not know how to use one either and improper gear + improper knowledge = bad.

This being your first time to the ravine you probably do not want to be there when the conditions require an ice axe anyway. Try to be flexible with your schedule so you can hit it at the best spring conditions possible.

[Dalau]

While it is always tempting to find suitable substitutes for gear that you do now own yet, an ice axe is not something you want to skimp on. The fact that you do not own one also implies you do not know how to use one either and improper gear + improper knowledge = bad.

This being your first time to the ravine you probably do not want to be there when the conditions require an ice axe anyway. Try to be flexible with your schedule so you can hit it at the best spring conditions possible.

When's a good period for me to go? I might also be able to go up sometime in late April or early May. How late in the season is the Sherburne ski trail generally skiiable until? Thanks.

[icelanticskier]

When's a good period for me to go? I might also be able to go up sometime in late April or early May. How late in the season is the Sherburne ski trail generally skiiable until? Thanks.

it all depends on the weather. i skied up there in 50 degree temps with perfect untracked mashers in early feb this year. some aprils i haven't gone at all due to temps that were too cold to soften anything up. may of 1997 it snowed 100 inches up there keeping avi danger on the high end and hardly any spring ski days till june. sometimes the best corn skiing is in march b4 the april hordes track and mogul everything and anything up. and then you have that condition killer called "inferno weekend". takes lots of rain to wash all of the crap away that the inferno causes. sherburne skiable? depends on what you call skiable. for me skiable is t2b with not much chance for hitting ski damaging obstacles like rocks. usually mid april is a safe bet. some years a week later and other a week or two earlier.
i feel that spring is happening now and winter will show it's face in april.
rog

[RR]

There are hunches and there is the almanac data. Typically mid-April is great for a first timer. Don't fill that big pack with super heavy stuff for as day trip. There are some tips on what to bring available from the front page of this site.

Now for the hunches. icelanticskier is not just sounding off. There has been a too long quiet on the hill, we may in fact get a March/April whopper of a storm. It has happened before. If the storm hits right before your tip the gullies and headwals will all probably be quite likely to avalanch. All the more reason for some Sherby runs, maybe short laps to the rescue-cache cutoff so you can slide over to the TRT and boot back up for more. No skiing or riding or sledding down the TRT.

Keep watching the ranger's daily bulletin and the weather....and keep asking questions.

btw - Water is heavy, start with a litre bottle of water and carry an second, empty bottle to fill at the pump beside the Tuckerman Ravine Trail, about 150 paces past the Caretakers hut. A litre of water should get you to the pump from Pinkham Notch Visitor Center. Once at the pump, refill the first and fill the empty bottle.

[Dalau]

Thanks all for the posts.

brakeformoose, you're gonna hate me for this. lol. I watched this vid on youtube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LM3xLshmNnk) and have a slight knowledge now. Of course, the muscle memory isn't there, so I'll have to do a few practice falls on a safe area when I get there.

RR, thanks for the tips too. I'll keep those in mind.

I checked this link (http://www.tuckerman.org/avalanche/index.html) and hopefully that'll give me an idea of what to expect. Weather.com also says low 20s and snow, but no rain, so I'm praying for some rain to reset the avy danger.

[PwdrHound]

I don't own an axe, but how would the claw side of a hammer do?

Sorry, I don't mean to flame anyone but, please tell me you weren't serious!!!!:doh:

Being an engineer, were you thinking of using the claw to fabricate something with a longer shaft? I'm just interested in what you were thinking....you might be on to something. 150 years in development, the mountaineering Axe has been replaced with the good old, trusty, Craftsman! Move over Petzl, here comes Bob Vila!

I've climbed in the Ravines many times without an Axe. They are not necessary but, they are good to have and, as with beacons, even better if you know how to use them :) My advice, pick up a Mountaineering Axe...they are damn near weightless and can save your life! There are a few different lengths to choose from, depending on your height, mostly.

http://media.npr.org/programs/waitwait/images/guests/2005/bvila140.jpg

[RR]

Sorry, I don't mean to flame anyone but, please tell me you weren't serious!!!!:doh:

Being an engineer, were you thinking of using the claw to fabricate something with a longer shaft? I'm just interested in what you were thinking....you might be on to something. 150 years in development, the mountaineering Axe has been replaced with the good old, trusty, Craftsman! Move over Petzl, here comes Bob Vila!...Makes me laugh! My first ice climb was with a straight claw framing hammer and a 12" screwdriver as an erzatz "ice dagger", pretty low angle, 40 degrees (+/-), but it was 40 feet to the frozen moss. Hiking crampons on leather boots and free-solo.

It works, but only if you are poor and have sfb*...amazing what we live through :eek:

Then (1995) I went all Hi-tech and got a straight Black Prophet and a super-techy Simond Piranha...gone through a couple dozen picks between them...still good for a while longer.

Don't tell Mrs RR and do not try those carpentry tools on the ice!

* my plea? guilty!

[PwdrHound]

Makes me laugh! My first ice climb was with a straight claw framing hammer and a 12" screwdriver as an erzatz "ice dagger", pretty low angle, 40 degrees (+/-), but it was 40 feet to the frozen moss. Hiking crampons on leather boots and free-solo.


Where's the TR???? LOL!

I LOVE THE PROPHETS!!!!! GREAT TOOL!

[2plankerider]

sunscreen.

that "extra layer" because you never know.

put some brews in the snowbank next to your car for afterwards.

and don't forget to take it all in for the first time, it's awsome...

[PWDR8S]

Most important? Do not wear cotton! Not at all until you're back in your car. But I've seen many do that regardless... If you can get merino wool shirts and thermals all the better... the newer polypro stuff works too. The reason is you will likely work up a sweat and cotton does not dry well and it absolutely loses any insulation qualities when wet or if it even gets mildly damp! Guarantee ticket to hypothermia hell.

Extra socks are highly recommended so you can change into warm dry socks after hiking up. Makes your comfort factor skyrocket. Smartwool socks rule! Or other merino wool like socks.

Sunglasses http://www.techsourceconsultants.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10020/glasses.gif or goggles are a must if sunny and I will repeat... sunscreen.



My pack always has extra socks and an extra shirt/base layer shirt to change into when the hard hiking is done. Makes for better enjoyment of the place instead of shivering.

[Fanatic1]

All of this is gr8t advice. Also important is to anticipate the changing conditions/work output to shed or add layers before the sweat begins to roll or the chill starts to set in. Once you are wet on climb you will have a lot more weight to carry with wet clothing in your pack!

[PWDR8S]

Oh yeah.... beacons not normally needed after early April, BUT as mentioned, conditions are subject to change, and drastically at that!

[Fanatic1]

Amen...April 13-17, 2007 the slats were all orange and we couldn't get up high for 4 days in a row. :cry:

[icelanticskier]

Amen...April 13-17, 2007 the slats were all orange and we couldn't get up high for 4 days in a row. :cry:

oh, you could've. the best skiing is on high danger days in the right places when the masses are afraid and hiding from all of the perfection.

rog

[Fanatic1]

oh, you could've. the best skiing is on high danger days in the right places when the masses are afraid and hiding from all of the perfection.

rog

Yea, Yea, I know rog, but you would need to explain that to the (now ex)girlfriend...:eek:

[RR]

Boys and Girls, Ladies and gentlemen of all ages....I gotta jump in right here....

An High Danger Avalanche rating is nothing to fool around with. Even conditions savvy skiers will probably cause slides under such circumstances, although it may not be the first skier or even during a groups first set of runs.

Certain skiers using highly developed skill set can often find less dangerous route, but such skiers/riders are rare exceptions to the rule.

In short, if you are not an exceptionaly skilled and perceptive mountain traveller you really should find an alternate place for your play/exertions when the avvy danger is posted at "High". Even if you are such a person it would be wisest to avoid such aspects as are so posted.

[icelanticskier]

Yea, Yea, I know rog, but you would need to explain that to the (now ex)girlfriend...:eek:

oh, you too?

rog

[Fanatic1]

oh, you too?

rog

Sadly, yes. She's a GREAT lady (Geogirl on here) and I let her slip away...:(

Oh and what you said RR, great advice and exactly what we did that day. The Sherbie was prime! Besides, I didn't have a becon for Tuckerman. (the dog) :cooldog: