Why i HATE American Ski Company now..

[2plankerider]

Dangnabbit! I was reading about the upcoming winter scene in the Burlington Free Press today. It listed the VT/NH/Quebec days for Killington. The usual 2 days a month (obviously a great excuse to take a particular day off) BUT it also states that the "Discount Days" are now 50% off. ***! years ago it was FREE, then it went to 10 bucks, followed by 15,18,25 until last year when i think it hit $29. Still a good deal for a midweek day at K-MART. BUT now it's marketed as 50% off! what's that gonna make it? 50 bucks???? DAM i'm steaming! every year they gotta take a little more away. this may be the end of the vt'r days at k-mart for me. i can see NEXT year already, the'll call it "VT/NH/Quebec VALUE DAYS" at 25% off. grrrrrrrrrrrrr ASC can kiss my :packdonkey:

[NtrentT]

Its all about business now with the A.S.C, they dont care about their customers if you ask me. They should have new england days. Bascily they should include CT.

Im a fan of Okiemo Mtn they arent owned by the A.S.C and have cool discount packages even for collage students.

Thats somthing the A.S.C has done away with.

I hear that the A.S.C isnt doing so well and they might sell their mountains. Including Killington !! . That would be awsome if it were back in a private owner's hands.

Just hope they dont adopt stratton's pricing.. Durring a weekend i believe its somting like 75.00.. WHICH IS NUTZ

and dont get me started on their food prices, 8.00 for a hamburger, thats just plain greed.

:envy:

[M@]

KMart VT day was always a blast. I didn't know it was NH day too! I haven't been in years becuase I'm a new hampster resident now and have lost my VT license.

Lemme know if it's NH day too, and we should put a trip together.

[2plankerider]

it became VT/NH/QUEBEC days a few years ago when ASC aquired more resorts in the east. YES it is in fact NH too. the dates are 11/25 12/15 12/31 1/6 1/21 2/5 2/23 4/5 & 4/16. again, not sure of the rate yet. only that it is 50% off. i usually hit all of 'em, and probably will again this year(yeah i know i said i am done with k-mart, but i've cooled down a bit) i guess 50% off is still reasonable, especially a mid week, crowd free day and it is still better than being at work all day.at least there's still FREE wings at casey's! a T4T day would be cool. be nice to put a physical face with some folks.

[elwood]

2plankerknuckledraggerVTr:
it became VT/NH/QUEBEC days a few years ago when ASC aquired more resorts in the east. YES it is in fact NH too. the dates are 11/25 12/15 12/31 1/6 1/21 2/5 2/23 4/5 & 4/16. again, not sure of the rate yet. only that it is 50% off. i usually hit all of 'em, and probably will again this year(yeah i know i said i am done with k-mart, but i've cooled down a bit) i guess 50% off is still reasonable, especially a mid week, crowd free day and it is still better than being at work all day.at least there's still FREE wings at casey's! a T4T day would be cool. be nice to put a physical face with some folks. ASC is dead broke, which is prolly part of the reasoning behiond this. And Casey's wing's suck compared to Charity's...

[RR]

Check out the deals at Magic:
Every Tuesday "Back to the 70's Day" $20 for all day lift ticket *non-holiday

Foodbank Day Wednesday: Bring a non perishable food item $5 off lift ticket (46USD adult)

These scheduled days are still "tba"
VT/NH DAY
NJ/NY/PA DAY
CT/MA DAY
JISP
CSC AWARENESS DAY
EVENTS
ENTERTAINMENT

Then there's the regular price at Saddleback
35USD

[M@]

My favorite deal day is MRG's Roll Back the Clock. Always a great crowd. I dropped everything and drove 3 hrs at 11pm at night 2 years ago to hit that, and it snowed!

[Castlerock]

Why don't they have a Massachusetts Day or a NY day? Yeah I know it is "locals" day.

Last year there were some nice early season (pre Christmas) days at Sugarbush. $20 ticket with the donation of canned food, and another day with $20 ticket for kids toy...

[pepperdawg]

Flat-kemo - Dec 7 - $35 with toy or dontation to food bank....(canned goods etc....)

FOr those of us with no life (although if it was as much snow as LAST year at X-mas - Woo Hoo) - $5.50 lift ticket on X-mas day to celebrate their 45th Anniv. at S'BUSH......

:snowflakes:

[RR]

Last year I checked out a showing of "Storm" Warren Miller's flick in Boston. The package they handed over to attendees included tickets to Mt Flatten and The Bush.

A couple of pals went all over to see the flick a few times, one got a door prize, and they got seven or eight tickets each.

[2plankerider]

well, now that wer're on a topic of other mtn. deals....Warren Miller day @ the bush (get a coupon when you see his movie, although it's only valid on a select day)VT residents at Jay is ALWAYS cheap (30-35 bucks). get a bash badge at smugg's and ski/ride at half price all year. also around the holidays you can get a free stowe card if you spend $25 bucks on the church street marketplace. i also got a free stowe card last year by calling up and saying i wanted the olympic stowe card whereas they donate a portion of $$ to the olympic committee, or something like that. granted it's only 25% off, BUT it's better than full price and hey it IS stowe after all. The POINT! (a local radio station) has half price fridays at select resorts too. hmmmmmm what else is there? There is usually a toy day at the bush and a canned food day at stowe (MOBBED!)oh yeah, there is also the two for tuesdays at cannon (can't wait to hit that tram line!)and the santa clause day at sunday river (dress up like ol st. nick and ski/ride for free)

needless to say, there are ways to get around paying full price...and yeah elwood, i'd say the wings at charity's ARE better than casey's, but my crew always tends to gravitate to the caboose.

[Castlerock]

Actually, ASC is an interesting case. They have done a lot for skiing in general. (bad or good depending on your POV). The proliferation of Fast Quads, snowmaking and wide flat trails was part of their mantra. Many mountains with lame terrain were built up to be essentially a real estate venture. Central to that was the ultra cheap, unliveable Quatershare/Hotel real estate pyramid scheme. When that scheme ran out is when they got whacked.

There is a lot of Skiing infrastructure in place that would not have been there without Les Ottens vision.

Thank God he never got to put one of his "hotels du fromage" at Sugarbush. but I thank him for some of the lifts..

[RR]

Right you are! Cannon has an annual two-fer on SuperBowl Sunday. Two ski for the price of one, and you are home in time for the game...hard to beat.

[RR]

Hey folks, this suff should get on the calendar. ASC may have earned a few jabs, but they do have some value days as well. Someday Bigger usually has some discounted tix a couple of times a year.

The Jeep schedule might go on the Calendar too.

[Steveboarder]

As far as lift ticket deals go i drive a grand cherokee so I hit all the Jeep ski free days around new england. some of the mountains arent the biggest but I get alot of good riding in for free.

[Castlerock]

As I recall they had Audi days around NE as well, although I haven't been to one.

[SkiStooge]

WHAT!!!??? Nobody has a Ford Taurus Wagon day!!!!???? People like me are constantly being discriminated against! lol Have fun, be safe. Al :skistooge:

[NH_tele]

Audi days??? Show me a calender & I'm there...

As for the ASC- I like some of what they do and despise other parts of it. I'm not into that whole "resort" thing; skiing should be about skiing, not apres-ski or hotels, etc.
High-speed quads can be nice though, although it reduces the recovery times between laps on a long mogul run ;)

I show up for 2-fer days at Cannon whenever I can; even if you're by yourself, you can almost always find some other single hanging around looking for someone to share the ticket price with... (oh, and that Tramline is very nice, with good snow, I did 8-10 laps on it once last season). One thing I'm not too happy about Cannon is its recent expansions. It's moving onto Mittersul, which encroaches on some nice powder stashes, and they've also put the glade to the skier's right of the tram on the map!!! That's been one of my favorite places to ski after the rest of the mountain gets skied off. Basically every local knows about it, but it still holds powder fairly well. I just hope they don't open up that other steep chute that some people here on the board probably know about...

Anyway, I've been doing more BC skiing anyway, you can't really beat the cost, and the turns are usually un-tracked or nearly so as well.

[elwood]

2plankerknuckledraggerVTr:
well, now that wer're on a topic of other mtn. deals....Warren Miller day @ the bush (get a coupon when you see his movie, although it's only valid on a select day)VT residents at Jay is ALWAYS cheap (30-35 bucks). get a bash badge at smugg's and ski/ride at half price all year. also around the holidays you can get a free stowe card if you spend $25 bucks on the church street marketplace. i also got a free stowe card last year by calling up and saying i wanted the olympic stowe card whereas they donate a portion of $$ to the olympic committee, or something like that. granted it's only 25% off, BUT it's better than full price and hey it IS stowe after all. The POINT! (a local radio station) has half price fridays at select resorts too. hmmmmmm what else is there? There is usually a toy day at the bush and a canned food day at stowe (MOBBED!)oh yeah, there is also the two for tuesdays at cannon (can't wait to hit that tram line!)and the santa clause day at sunday river (dress up like ol st. nick and ski/ride for free)

needless to say, there are ways to get around paying full price...and yeah elwood, i'd say the wings at charity's ARE better than casey's, but my crew always tends to gravitate to the caboose. Don't forget half-priced weekends at random resorts all winter with the Wizard Card...

2 Planker, they have schooners at Charity's though. Nothing beats a schooner full of Guiness after a long day of skiing...

[Lftgly]

No offense, Castlerock, but Why don't they have a Massachusetts Day or a NY day? is like asking "when is Kids Day" after Mothers Day & Fathers Day. In case you hadn't noticed, every Saturday is New York day at Killington, or any ski area in VT; (and it's Massachusetts Day at every NH ski area).

Locals make great sacrifices to live in ski country; they live without many of the luxuries enjoyed by those who live "down below": easy access to museums, major league sports, decent wages, good restaurants, malls, traffic, drugs, crime... but I digress.

In recognition of that, some ski areas used to have a tradition of giving back a little to the local community that supports them, in the way of an occasional discount. Often these were un-advertised or only mentioned in local papers. Ten years ago, Loon used to ski free on May Day, as an employee appreciation day that was also open to the public. Bretton Woods for several years has offered a Sunday Afternoon $10 half-day special for residents of Grafton, Coos, or Caledonia County, though it crept up to $12 last year. Cannon used to print coupons in the local paper, but discontinued that 7-8 years ago. Many of these areas provide cut-rate deals to local school children. Why anyone in southern NH or VT deserves a break is lost on me.

That tradition is becoming little more than a memory at most NE ski areas. ASC is leading the pack, and obviously the suits decided a few years ago to just suck the life blood out of anything that moved, and worry about community loyalty in the after-life.

[elwood]

What really chokes my chicken is that as locals, we get nothing from the local ski areas. One day a month where we have discounted rates should be adopted by all ski areas out east. Currently, we get raped on season passes. it is upwards of a grand for a pass at K-mart or Stowe. The bush and Smuggs isn't much cheaper. A CO resident pays somewhere around $199 for a season pass with no blackouts at A-basin, Winter Park, etc. Summit co. passes aren't much more than that either. Needless to say, the skiing and snow conditions are just slightly better out there....

[Castlerock]

It is hard to put the "tongue in cheek" in text, but I understand about the local thing. I just find it hard to put a Burlington IBM technocrat, or a Portsmouth NH, Real estate magnate in the category of "Sacrificing Ski Area Local".

The season pass prices, are extravagant, I haven't bought one and I was at Sugarbush every weekend last year except for X-Mas, MLK and Presidents. It was an economic decision, that had a lot to do with having three young kids, two of which didn't ski, so my wife and I played tag team and shared a ticket.

I believe it costs a lot more to run a ski area in the east, with snow making, grooming etc. In addition you don't find ski area owners getting rich. Generally you find them getting poor.

But keep an eye out for deals, as listed in this thread (it might be nice if we could collect them in some resource, as I would like to remember them), one more from last year was an end of year pass at the Bush from early/mid March till the end of the season for something like $100...

[BladeGirl]

RR:
Hey folks, this suff should get on the calendar. Is there a calendar? If not there should be. People could submit these items to Dave/M@ who would put them on a calendar everyone could access. All the proposed trips to various ski areas that we've been talking about could go on, planned spring Tucks days, etc.

-BG

[elwood]

Castlerock:
It is hard to put the "tongue in cheek" in text, but I understand about the local thing. I just find it hard to put a Burlington IBM technocrat, or a Portsmouth NH, Real estate magnate in the category of "Sacrificing Ski Area Local".

The season pass prices, are extravagant, I haven't bought one and I was at Sugarbush every weekend last year except for X-Mas, MLK and Presidents. It was an economic decision, that had a lot to do with having three young kids, two of which didn't ski, so my wife and I played tag team and shared a ticket.

I believe it costs a lot more to run a ski area in the east, with snow making, grooming etc. In addition you don't find ski area owners getting rich. Generally you find them getting poor.

But keep an eye out for deals, as listed in this thread (it might be nice if we could collect them in some resource, as I would like to remember them), one more from last year was an end of year pass at the Bush from early/mid March till the end of the season for something like $100... While an IBM "technocrat" or a Portsmouth slum lord my not be a "sacrificing ski area local", they still live in the state, pay taxes here, and give much of their money back to the community. So I can see them getting breaks on prices because they are residents. Now I understand that operating costs are far greater here than out west, mostly due to our local weather. And I understand that most ski area owners out east ARE losing money. However, I know a lot of locals that don't buy passes, simply because they cannot afford them. If they would make skiing more affordable to those of us who lived here in the state, it ould generate much more business on the season pass side. Unfortunately most ski areas around here would rather have the pass be unattainable, and those that cannot afford one buy a daily ticket. Daily ticket sales are much more profitable anyway.

[NHski]

Most local ski area people that I know, don't pay for skiing, either they work at a shop and get a free daily ticket or they work marginally for the resort and ski free. The towns near resorts are mostly small and if you live there, you get to know people who have the full time ski resort jobs and can hook you up.

[Castlerock]

An interesting premise that lower pass prices would generate more income to the resort. If the price was lower I'd buy a pass too. I don't know where they would end up if they choice a different price point on their market elasticity function. I'd love it if you were right. I just can't believe the marketing people at the areas are missing the boat, by that much. Then again.....

One of the common subjects on the chair at the Bush was we'd like to see more people there to help the area make it. Meaning be successful with a new private individual owner as opposed to ASC, Intrawest etc. (There are just no lift lines there in general, Castlerock on a freshies day excluded!)

As for the local's thing. >90 percent of NH's population lives in Manchester or South. They aren't locals. I live near the NH border. Why am I "different"?. As NH ski says, If you live and work in the area you find a way to get your deal. You are economically connected to the area. A farmer in Fayston is economically connected to the Mad River Valley, while an engineer at IBM isn't. Just because someone lives "closer" to a ski area than someone else, really isn't the issue.

As for the taxes thing, most ski areas are on National Forest land, so we all pay the taxes.

I wish it was less expensive

[targheehucker]

two words

JEEP DAYS (BABY)

20 free days of skiing a year and most are either fri, sat, or sun...

[NHski]

If you look hard enough, there are loop holes in the system, at least with ASC. ;)

[kfarrar]

There is one solution to the whole problem of the high cost of resort skiing.

It's BC skiing. Less people and less money.

All the money you would have spent on a season's pass you can buy yourself sweat AT gear or a nice splitboard set up.

If it weren't for the high cost of resort skiing I would have never vertured in the BC.

New England has a lot of skiable terrain that cost next to nothing.

Just my thoughts on the topic.

[2plankerider]

i agree a calendar of some sort would be nice for everyone to post their knowledge of deals....is it possible o great moderators?

another FYI. the Vermont ski area association has a web site www.skivermont.com (http://www.skivermont.com) that you can submit an e-mail address to in order to get what deals they are told about by resorts. there is also an events listing on the site as well.

as far as to pass of not to pass... i find it better to take advantage of the deals i can find at various mountains and not be tied to any one mountain. this works great if you have the flexibility like me where i can basically take any day off. one more deal i just though of: Chittenden bank gives out 1/2 price coupons on their statements for the 'bush and a few other mtns on select days of the year. i think it may be business accounts though.

[Castlerock]

Right NH, I guess that is what I like about this thread. There is a buch of great stuff on how to do maximize it. From the Bash Badge, to the late season pass, to the no holiday pass, there are a bunch of opportunities out there

[RR]

kfarrar, you said it! BC rules...I truly adore kicker-sticker days. Regular skins are okay too, just slower.

The Hump, North Slide and other BC gold...

And then there's the old truth mentioned here and out on the snow: "they can only charge for the ride up, the skiing is free in the National Forest"

[targheehucker]

I dont know where all the money goes in the east... Out west, at least in CO, passes are cheap as hell, but their one day rates are real expensive... Out west I guess they just get alot more skiers... margins are probably bigger

[Castlerock]

Snow Making, Land, Insurance

And Grooming (I forgot)

[loafnut]

Snowmaking is a big expense, and a simple solution to grooming is not to do it. :) :)

But shouldnt the west have higher land costs with their vastly larger acreage? Insurance should be similar between east and west.

[Castlerock]

If you don't groom, you don't get the skier traffic. ASC proved that. Sure Mad River has a niche, but it won't go for the masses. The sad part is, the ungroomed snow doesn't get nearly as icy as the groomed stuff.

The national forest owns a lot of the "Mountain" land so that doesn't cost real $. What costs money is the resort land. And I believe (I am hypothesizing here) our land and tax rates are higher. At places that have equivalently expensive land/tax rates, I think you'll find expensive tickets (See Squaw, etc)

[RR]

I can sympathize with the whole cost deal...I really can. I paid full price a number of times last season, and didn't really mind. What really frosts my backside is the dam'n VIP tickets that allow any fool with the scratch to be treated as though they were the Swiss Ambassador, a Supreme Court Justice, etc.

Hence my special enjoyment at poaching at places offering said passes.

[targheehucker]

RR you are not a big fan of Reaganomics are you ;)

I agree with the snowmaking/grooming issue but as far as land costs go, I think the Wests would be higher. And taxes? Uhh unless it is different for res/com than for commercial ski land, Vail Valley is not coming in under VT...

I think the makeup of prices coming in is the difference. At Killington, I would think there is a lot more season pass people because there are alot of visits coming from (relatively) close by. Contrary alot of resorts out west have vacationers who ski for 4-5 days at the (really high) daily rate, stay at hotels, eat at restaurants, and do the whole resort deal... The mountain most definitely gets kickbacks for that stuff...

Any ski resort managment majors in the house?

PS You guys HAVE to find some way to get discount lift tickets. It is a travesty if you have to pay the full prices there are so many ways around it. Coupons, ski clubs, poaching, group rates, special trips, "fudging college status"...Hmmm maybe that is why ASC is hurting for cash -plop :skierpetrified:

[NHski]

targheehucker:
Coupons, ski clubs, poaching, group rates, special trips, "fudging college status"...Hmmm maybe that is why ASC is hurting for cash -plop :skierpetrified: SHHH

[elwood]

Beleive me, I know there are loopholes, and I take advantage of them. However, I feel like I should have VIP status, just because they should give it to me.

[Castlerock]

Elwood you are THE VIP in my book! Right next to me. We will get lift cutting passes this year. (It is only valid at Tucks, GOS and GG.)

But I'd love to hear from a ski area management person about teh economics. And Targhee, you are right, the Vail Valley is bling bling, but check this out, a 3 day ticket @ Vail between 12/20 and 1/3, with a 14 day advance purchase is $213! Yes that's right, $71/day for a multiday ticket! VT hasn't reached that part of the ticket stratosphere.

[elwood]

Castlerock:
Elwood you are THE VIP in my book! Right next to me. We will get lift cutting passes this year. (It is only valid at Tucks, GOS and GG.)

But I'd love to hear from a ski area management person about teh economics. And Targhee, you are right, the Vail Valley is bling bling, but check this out, a 3 day ticket @ Vail between 12/20 and 1/3, with a 14 day advance purchase is $213! Yes that's right, $71/day for a multiday ticket! VT hasn't reached that part of the ticket stratosphere. I paid $71 a day to ski at Vail last Feb. OMG, it was worth it.

[Castlerock]

Elwood, I love the Avatars, you been hanging at art.com or the NH ski museum?

The pause that satisfies!

[elwood]

Actually the last couple I have used came right out of Dave's selections!

[Castlerock]

I've got to show you around Snowbird! Vail is fun, especially with snow, but you will have died and gone to heaven after some time with the Iron Blosam crew.

[Castlerock]

I'll go looking. I was wondering how you were able to get them. I didn't figure that Dave would be doing Avatar a la carte. I image he does have a job...

[elwood]

Castlerock:
I've got to show you around Snowbird! Vail is fun, especially with snow, but you will have died and gone to heaven after some time with the Iron Blosam crew. I'm ready...although not sure I'll be able to make it out there this season. We'll definitely have to meet up at the Bush this year though. I want to see all your stash spots up there...

[NH_tele]

I've skied at Vail a couple times, and it's ok, but (compared to Breck & A-Basin right by it), nothing to write home about. Fairly good terrain, lower elevation (=worse snow), way too expensive, over-crowded & too big.

Alta, now that is a real nice Western mountain. I love the atmosphere, it's very laid-back. The terrain & snow are beautiful (better than the CO rockies most of the time).

Any more news on the Audi days???

[kmrnskier]

Elwood - speaking of Vail, our dates - Feb 27 to March 6, skiing 7 days, open to close. Airlines have cheap tickets right now, for the next week or so.

[JapanTele]

Wildat - as always Toofer Day on Wednesday. I remember as a kid going up there with my parents while playing hookey at school. Classic.