Summit County CO beta

[astrotech]

The GF and I are breaking down and going to do the whole CO ski vacation thing. I would be curious to hear what people's insights are into the Breckenridge/Keystone/A-Basin scene?
Some people seem to be down on Keystone, is this warranted?
Keystone seems to have some nifty slack country bowls accessible by hiking/CAT. Is it worth bringing some backcountry gear for that, or even better, is there a place to rent some gear, like something with a set of Diamirs or Dukes on them?

I am also wondering if the rating systems are broadly on par with the East coast or do I need to adjust things by a notch or two?

Thanks!

[boardman]

Breck is cool, and there's great stuff to be had. The T-bar (to Peak 6, I think) is the way to go -- it keeps a lot of bumblies off the slopes over there. Imperial Bowl is a short hike from the highest chair, and there's some wicked steep lines in there. Also, there's some great stuff in the trees over where Devil's Crotch (a wicked bump run reminiscent of Outer Limits) is. Very cool mountain, and lots of places to hide if you know where to look. Be advised, Breck is one of the highest altitude resorts in the country. The Imperial Bowl is at 13K+, IIRC. So it does take some acclimatizing. Take your Diamox if you have issues at altitude.

A-Basin: FAHKING ROCKS! GO THERE! You will love it! The "Palli Face" is fantastic, especially the wicked steep glades, with cliffs and drops that just jump up at you (so be mindful!). There's fun to be had in the Montezuma Bowl as well, but you don't get as much bang for your buck as you do on the Palli. It's got Jackson Hole-type steeps. A-Basin has a great vibe. It is a skier's mountain. You will not be disappointed. I can't wait to go back (I'll be hitting both again in March!).

edited to add: ratings are on par w/east. you've skied Tux, so there's nothing you can't handle out there.

[PWDR8S]

Breck is the town to hang in at night... def active fun there. On the ski/ride side of things, Keystone really isn't all that bad... just go way way back and ride the glades and also the short hikes up beyond. Interesting terrain but good to visit for a day or two. Like B-man said A rocks! Breck is good on the more difficult stuff mainly because you don't have the rookies running into you or freezing in your line.

Hey Boardman.... when you gonna be out there? I'm in Vail 1-7MARCH and will be touring around(may depend on my ski buddies).

[drewvw]

Breck is a great ski town, and A-Basin just flat out rocks for skiing.

Some of the sickest "in bounds" terrain you will ever see. Some nice side country there too, even after they just turned a bunch of it into the montezuma bowl last year. Pavalacinni face has to be done.

[mattlucas]

i see more people down on breck then on keystone for some reason....when are you out, and where are you staying? I kinda think they'll all be pretty fun depending on snow. I'm sure there are places to rent gear if you want to do a tour. I would advise doing a full day tour and skiing smart in bounds and just bootpacking a little bit. You'll need to do any real BC with beacons etc. The ratings are on par but one thing i notice when i ski out west is that the sustained steeness on descents is something you just dont get in the east. Pali at abasin is 1800 vertical lets say, but it accomplishes it in what seems IIRC 1000 feet less than something like castlerock. So Think the Headwall x 3.5 with a lift up it. It's sick!

[efoxx]

Great Location. A-Basin is about 40 min from Breck/Keystone. Keystone and Breck are only 15 -20 minutes from each other. In addition Vail, Beaver Creek, Copper, Loveland are all so close. As far as BC is concerned I don't personally think either Breck or Keystone is anything to write home about. Keystone is overall steeper than Breck, but the steeps are short lived, especially by west coast standards. I personally ride it all, and I won't lie I am a park rat, so for me Keystone and Breck are great because they have some of the best park riding in the country. Breck has the highest serviceable lift in the country, its like 13,000. I have heard A-Basin is great, especially Montezuma, the new "BC" they now offer. As far as I am concerned Vail has great inbounds BC. Once again as a whole Colorada resorts in the Summitt Country region are relatively flat, they don't offer some of the legendary steeps like Aspen or Telluride. That being said, the night life at Breck is great, especially if your young. I am 24 and its a great scene for the mid 20's to early 30's crowd. I love Vail its not all that challenging but it does have great features in Blue Sky, lots of little to medium sized cliffs and rock formations to launch off of. If you like drops, which I do, its a great place to hit relatively safe drops, between 10 - 35 foot cliffs. All in all, I think Summit County has the most to offer due to its resort variety and the close proximity between all of the above resorts. If you are looking for a cheap place to stay, definitely crash in Silverton. Otherwise Breck is great as you can walk to all the bars. Staying at Vail is "wicked" expensive, so if money is an issue you might want to make it a day trip, which is very doable, its only 50 minutes at most from Breck.

[icelanticskier]

when yer drivin by loveland to summit ski, just keep on drivin, cuz lovelands where icelantic skis. nuff said.
rog

[Badinfluence]

breck was my least favorite. love keystone outback area skied w/ Warren Miller back there man that guy had perfect form. A-basin is so much fun

[skiyak777]

As, already mentioned, A-basin has great steep terrain, but some of it may not be open after new snow. Loveland has nice steeps with easy hiking from the lift off of the continental divide.

One things no one has mentioned is that Copper has a back bowl with free snowcat access. I found it quicker to skin up than to wait for the snowcat, (wich only goes partway up anyway) but nevertheless there is some good steep sidecountry terrain back there.

[astrotech]

Thanks for the info guys, that was helpful.
We should be out there first weekend of March, seems like a good time to go. The lodging seems a bit cheaper in the Keystone area, but I have a feeling we will hit all three places while we are there. I do want to try and get in a day at A-Basin, some of it depends on what the GF wants to do as well.

[drewvw]

He's right...the cat skiing at copper is really good, but it can take awhile. I think the ridge is called Tucker ridge or something and if you hike all the way to the end, to the last gate there is some great side country there.

Just make sure steer back towards the resort at the end or you will end up doing quite a bit of trekking.


http://drewzimber.com/colorado2008/tucker_ridge_800600.jpg

[LPNH]

Boardmans got it right, if you have never skied at that altitude bring Diamox and start taking it the day before you fly out. You could really ruin a fun vacation. I've seen guys huffing and puffing turning green and sweating bullets just putting there boots on at the base lodges. Stay away from heavy drinking and make sure you drink tons of water and a camel back type water pack is a must. Breckenridge is a circus on wkends- Loveland is the great hidden secret for wkends- if you must stay right in the thick of Summit county ski Copper on the wkends it skis more like a locals mountain and head for the back bowls you wont be disappointed. Dont bother with the free cat skiing there on wkends, limited operating window-too many people want the free novelty.. save it for midweek. A basin gives you the goods gets your heart pumping and eyes bulging. Hit the Pav. Breck you gotta find the good stuff otherwise I find it flat and boring. If you dont have a car the Summit county bus will bring you for free everywhere you want to go- everything point to point is about a half hour w/o traffic - Breck traffic sucks plan on sitting in traffic Fri, Sat, Sun. If you end up at Vail plan where you want to ski and go there- it is so big you can spend all day just traversing. Head for the bowls.
I got married overlooking the 10 mile range at Copper yrs ago very picturesque. Probably my favorite of the Summit county areas- lots of locals ski there ... hook up with one and you will find skiing that will blow you away.

[Badinfluence]

screw diamonx. just be in good physical shape and red meat when your out there.

[boardman]

PWDR8S - I'm gonna be at Breck again (2nd week of March, it looks like), with another foray to A-Basin for sure. A friend of mine co-owns a gigantic, posh investment property a 5-minute walk from the lifts at Breck. It is unbelievably sweet. As a property owner/season pass holder, he is able to hook me up with discounted lift tix. He knows where all the goods are at Breck, and believe me, there's PLENTY!

When I go out to Colorado for a few days in early February (after a brief work commitment), I'm going to try to get to Silverton (been wanting to get there bad!) and Telluride, but the snow will dictate where I go, since I'll be solo and free-wheeling it.

[PWDR8S]

I tend to agree with Badinfluenza :p
Seriously, Diamox may be overkill unless you're planning to push 13000+... just drink plenty of water... preload before you drive out, like in Denver(I assume you're flying into Denver) Stop at a supermarket or convenience store before you head into the mountains to by water and maybe snacks for the road. But drink copious amounts of water during the 1st few days and hold off on booze/beer until the 2nd night... this would greatly improve altitude acclimatization thus getting the most out of your time and money.

Lodging is cheapest in Dillon or better yet, Frisco which is right off I70 just after Silverthorn.

Give me a call and I can help. I'm a regular out there and I will be in Vail the 1st week of March. So if you want a personal tour guide for the day for free, I may be available. I'll be skiing with buddies as well.
I can show you much but I can't tell you. ;)

How long will you be out there?

[boardman]

I know astrotech did an Exum ski mountaineering course in the Tetons a couple years back, so he probably has some insight into the altitude issue. That being said, even though the studies are inconclusive, I swear by gingko biloba. I've used it many, many times before going to altitude, and it's worked very well for me (including at Breck last year - my buddy's house is at almost 10K). The one time I didn't (fall climbing in the Tetons last year), I felt sluggish and out of sorts.

But some people, for whatever reason, just get their a$$ kicked at altitude, regardless of fitness. I've climbed at altitude with a very solid Iron Man Triathlete, and every time, altitude has laid him low. Same for another friend of mine. If you're one of those guys, then Diamox can be a trip saver. It's no fun spending three days feeling sick and lethargic, especially when you're spending a boatload of cash to do so. So the anti-Diamox advice, while well-intentioned, does not apply across the board. Yes, there are some side effects, but generally, for the person who just doesn't acclimatize for whatever the reason, those side effects are generally far, far less debilitating than AMS.

[skiyak777]

screw diamonx. just be in good physical shape and red meat when your out there.

I don't think the original poster needs any advice about altitude sicknes or Diamox (I remember a Shasta trip two years ago where he pulled off at a highway rest area in Weed and broke open capsules of Diamox for everyone to snort prior to a quick ascent from sea level: http://timefortuckerman.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6693&highlight=shasta)

For the uninitiated, I thought I'd point out a few things about altitude sickness.

1) Your level of fitness isn't going to have much impact on whether you get sick. A fair percentage of people will get headaches/nausea when going above 10K regardless of fitness. At 13,000 feet, most people will.

2) The headaches/nausea you feel in the first few days at altitude are not due to lack of red blood cells, but due to the fact that you are hyperventilating and exhaling more carbon dioxide than normal. This changes the pH of your blood, leading to headaches/nausea. Your body adjusts to this in a few days even before it has the chance to make more red blood cells. Diamox adresses this by inhibiting an enzyme called carbonic anhydrase that converts carbonic acid in your blood to carbon dioxide so that it can be exhaled. When this enzyme is inhibited, your blood pH does not change nearly as readily, alleviating the symptoms.

3) Eating red meat isn't going to help you acclimatize on a one week trip. While your body will respond to altitude by making EPO and initiating production of more red blood cells, it takes a week for the initially formed reticulocytes to differentiate into red blood cells to increase your aerobic capacity.

Bottom line: Diamox can help a lot on those 3-day weekend trips to Colorado where you would otherwise be wiped out and have a headache for the first two days. If you get a prescription, try to get the 125 mg capsules, as 250 mg is more than you need to prevent altitude symptoms and will cause unnecessary side effects (its a diuretic and will make you have to pee a lot, can also cause tingling/numbness in your fingertips, and will make your beer taste flat.)

[PWDR8S]

Good words Skiyak. I didn't mean to sound like I totally diss Diamox. I works for many people. It doesn't for me. :rolleyes:

I got slammed with AMS at 16,000' in the Himalayas in October after hitting just shy of 18,000'. It was miserable pain for me. I took Diamox and it did not go well for me... my arms and legs were tingling like as if they were slept on wrong. I'm sure Astro is up to speed on all that... I was commenting to the benefit(detriment?) of our other forum readers and lurkers.

Perhaps you or a moderator should take your comments and put them in a new thread titled Diamox in the Safety section. I'm certain many people never heard of it would like to learn more.

[Badinfluence]

Diamonx is for the WEAK. your iron man budy should be called puddy man. :cry::cry::cry::cry::cry:

Be in good physical condition, Drink water and eat red meat.

[Rider.Steve]

On the herbal side of the altitude question, I had good experience with Herba Mate (Mah-tay) when I was in Summit County two years ago (thanx P8's). My buddies thumbed their noses at the ancient remedy, and they felt much worse than I did the first couple day. :p

Steve

[pulverschwein]

As usual, Skiyak gives sage advice. As a former multiple season A Basin passholder who has (lamentably) always lived on the east coast, I completely agree with his opinoins of the altititues where people experience problems and can personally attest to them. Diamox combined with PWDR8s recommendation of superhydration and limited boozing have saved numerous 2 and 3 day Summit Co. forays for me. Dunno if red meat helps or hurts, just know I always chow lots of it when I'm anywhere in the rockies. After day 3, I have very little trouble and generally can adjust no problem. One thing I have noticed is that the elevation where I sleep is a major factor - ie, when I sleep in SLC or Jackson and ski up to 10 or 11K I have very few problems, but if I'm staying above 8,500 or so and skiing those same elevations I sleep poorly and hyperventilate more. Breck town is high elevation, Dillon / Silverthorne's a bit better and (if you can afford it or can sleep on PWDR8s couch :p) Vail's better yet.

Like everyone says, Pali rules (esp the alleys), haven't been to Montezuma since it was true OB and non lift served, so I'm not sure what they've done to it. Copper with local guidance has some of the best terrain going and you can find great lines or waste a whole day at Breck depending on where you look. Haven't skied Keystone since I was a kiddie as they banned boarding for years. Loveland rocks all around. Hope you get dumped, adjust to elevation and have a blast.
Edit: didn't realize astrotech was original poster - I'm not really qualified to give him advice on acclimatizing or anything else mountaineering related.

There's a chance I'll be doing a long weekend round those parts in early March too - I'll let y'all know if it comes together.

[skiyak777]

Perhaps you or a moderator should take your comments and put them in a new thread titled Diamox in the Safety section. I'm certain many people never heard of it would like to learn more.

There is an excellent book on the subject (search Google Books for Going Higher- they have most of it online for previewing.)

I don't have any experience above about 14K, but I don't think Diamox will do anything for HAPE/HACE. You might need ****** for that.